Topic: Chuck Landon: Imagine MU hoops playing faster

[Herdmeister]

Also DD said he would like for everyone that can to come to the Thursday or Friday practice (can't remember which day-I will try and find out tomorrow) because there is going to be a guy from CUSA there to talk about what the conference is trying to do) I think he said the guy would talk at 1:30.

I'm pretty sure it's Friday. I will make sure today at practice

[herdorbust]

The difference in a few players leaving basketball is a lot different than most leaving football. They aren't leaving because of drugs, being cussed out by the coach or many other type situations. Robinette left because his mother wanted him to come back home. Had nothing to do with him or DD. Nikolic decided he wanted to make some money and go home.

[herdorbust]

I really appreciate your posts and perspective Herdorbust.  When I see you have posted, I'm like a kid at Christmas.  Please don't let the negative people keep you from posting.  There are many who enjoy what you post.

Thanks for the words MUTim. That is the way I feel when I get to go to practice LOL. DD is putting together a really bright future. Me and him were talking about that yesterday. About what the front line will look like down the road. Bennett-Williams and George will be here for the next 4 years. Those 3 guys may give us the best front line we have ever had at Marshall once they get some playing time under their belt.

[TeaysValleyThunder]

Yes.

Thanks.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[MUonium]

If we can get Dillon and Brooks-Harris, we will be fine.

(to anybody with any knowledge...and thanks) do you think these two are the warmest to potentially sign?

Is verbalcommits.com usually the most accurate or up to date on offers?  Scout/247 does list an offer on McClung and other players.  Are there other good resources not listed below? 

Cameron Brooks-Harris - VC
Jeremy Dillon – VC, Scout/247, Rivals
Keldon Johnson – Scout/247,
Mac McClung – Scout/247,
Mikal Dawson – VC, Scout/247
Taevion Kinsey - VC
Tre King - VC

[herdorbust]

Yes that is the top 2 at this point.

[Herdmeister]

(to anybody with any knowledge...and thanks) do you think these two are the warmest to potentially sign?

Is verbalcommits.com usually the most accurate or up to date on offers?  Scout/247 does list an offer on McClung and other players.  Are there other good resources not listed below? 

Cameron Brooks-Harris - VC
Jeremy Dillon – VC, Scout/247, Rivals
Keldon Johnson – Scout/247,
Mac McClung – Scout/247,
Mikal Dawson – VC, Scout/247
Taevion Kinsey - VC
Tre King - VC

Yes, they are. They are the top 2 targets as well.

[Garbanjo]

Yes, they are. They are the top 2 targets as well.

And now a big with Robinette's departure..................Levi Cook?

[coalherd]

I'll agree with that to an extent. However, DD was never hyped as a recruiting god who was expected to get the best kids out from under the noses of the big boys. Another glaring difference is he actually coaches kids up and gets more from less every year. Something considerably absent from the football program. DD has gone beyond preseason predictions every year here.

Yes, but ideally, as team improves and hopefully finds success with each passing season (meaning improved records and POST SEASON appearances and success), the caliber of recruits who consider MU should increase also.  In season 4 is it unreasonable for Herd fans to expect that the team should be in one of the meaningful post season tourneys, NCAA or NIT?  Just pointing out that with a lot less team/squad numbers overall in basketball, the team chemistry, the meshing together, or teamwork, can be adversely affected with just a relatively small number of squad defections.  We also lost another scholarship player, Allison, from the start of last season and then, too, a much publicized local walk-on, Kilgore, no longer on the team.  Same goes for the Frampton kid who was a walk on also.

[2xBison]

given the timing of hire, and where he came from, I view this as season three.

[herdorbust]

Agree about season 3. Also the talent level is getting better. Much better!!!  It could be this season. But next season we will be loaded like we havent been in decades. As excited as i am for this year, i am chomping at the bit for next year more than any year since i have been following the herd and thats a long time.

[CoachSkip]

.  We also lost another scholarship player, Allison, from the start of last season and then, too, a much publicized local walk-on, Kilgore, no longer on the team.  Same goes for the Frampton kid who was a walk on also.

Allison was on the fast pace to flunk out of school . If a walk-on leaves , imo , it's not a big deal.

[Apollo]

Yes, but ideally, as team improves and hopefully finds success with each passing season (meaning improved records and POST SEASON appearances and success), the caliber of recruits who consider MU should increase also.  In season 4 is it unreasonable for Herd fans to expect that the team should be in one of the meaningful post season tourneys, NCAA or NIT?  Just pointing out that with a lot less team/squad numbers overall in basketball, the team chemistry, the meshing together, or teamwork, can be adversely affected with just a relatively small number of squad defections.  We also lost another scholarship player, Allison, from the start of last season and then, too, a much publicized local walk-on, Kilgore, no longer on the team.  Same goes for the Frampton kid who was a walk on also.

I don't think its unfair to ask those questions at all, but I'll agree with others, given the circumstances of his arrival I'd say its more like season 3... a la the late arrival of Snyder in football. As far as post season goes, its just different circumstances than football. A .500 record doesn't guarantee you post season play in a meaningless game. It's the NIT, NCAA or bust with DD and I agree. In football, a bowl game gets you an extra 3 weeks of practice, not necessarily so with basketball. We're a one bid league. Win the tourney and thats the only way to meaningful postseason. DD wants it to meaningful not playing a MAC school in Florida in front of 500 fans with another 500 watching at home. The difference in how these guys are leaving are a lot different than how they leave in football as well, not to say the defections don't hurt, just sayin, it isn't quite the same. I think 15 games as some are saying is way undershooting it. You'll be surprised I think. But the key is getting Jon to stay another year. If he does, we win CUSA and go to the dance.

[coalherd]

I don't think its unfair to ask those questions at all, but I'll agree with others, given the circumstances of his arrival I'd say its more like season 3... a la the late arrival of Snyder in football. As far as post season goes, its just different circumstances than football. A .500 record doesn't guarantee you post season play in a meaningless game. It's the NIT, NCAA or bust with DD and I agree. In football, a bowl game gets you an extra 3 weeks of practice, not necessarily so with basketball. We're a one bid league. Win the tourney and thats the only way to meaningful postseason. DD wants it to meaningful not playing a MAC school in Florida in front of 500 fans with another 500 watching at home. The difference in how these guys are leaving are a lot different than how they leave in football as well, not to say the defections don't hurt, just sayin, it isn't quite the same. I think 15 games as some are saying is way undershooting it. You'll be surprised I think. But the key is getting Jon to stay another year. If he does, we win CUSA and go to the dance.

My take is that if we can continue to improve even with the roster losses from 2016-17 squad, that can be a major key for greater success down the road.  Would certainly show prospective recruits that the program is in solid hands and continued winning trend makes it more appealing.  Would also perhaps be the deciding factor in whether some of our experienced players, like Elmore, stay around for another season.

I assume Elmore is close to his degree, perhaps by the end of this school year.  If Herd has another "close but no cigar" year, with no meaningful post season (can't help wonder if Danny's aversion to the CIT and the like may rest more on his desire to get out on the golf course as soon as he can on a warm March day, but that's another story), whether Elmore, and possibly others, will say "sayonara" to Herd basketball.

What about Penava?  I would imagine he would be close to having his degree by next summer, too.  What if he has a very solid season for the Herd this year.  But the team has a so-so season.  Would he be tempted to take his degree and return overseas a year early for a possible pro career in Europe, like Nikolic did? 

Back to Elmore.  He has another good year personally but team comes up short of post season tourneys again.  Would he elect to forego senior season?  Or, perhaps, go to a larger major program as grad transfer, thinking that would improve his pro prospects?

So what if Herd starts the 18-19 season without Milan, without Penava and without Elmore?  Who is our backup to Iran, playing college competition for the first time?  Don't think our freshman forwards this season are capable post players.  Perhaps if we had kept and developed Dozic (oops, did I mention another defection from the good ship "Danny D"?).

Herd goes without a championship and post season tourney through 2018-19, season 5 no matter what others may say.  Then, perhaps, it becomes obvious that there is more to having a successful college basketball program than "a lot of teaching".

[herdfifteen]

I recall last year a great deal of emphasis was placed on teaching defense, how did that work out? Now we are hearing the same tune, playing fast and players flying all over the floor on defense. Penava has some good attributes but he is slow getting off the floor and he is suppose to be our savior on defense inside.  Ryan's defense wasn't great but to often he was left alone to guard two players, his man and the breakaway coming down the lane. We all hope this year is different defensively, the D'Antoni bball history suggest that remains a big question mark.

[herdorbust]

Ill tell you what guys. Instead of me giving you basketball reports so you can say we said this and that last year. Or jon may do this or peneva may do that. Just come to practice and see for yourself and ask the questions you are raising. Think i havent? Nothing is guaranteed but you can ask and you can get a pretty good idea who is coming back and who might not. Obviously you think us that go to practice make stuff up or hype. Like we have said before, you can get all your questions answered at practice and you wont have to depend on second hand info. Hope to see you there.

[Herdmeister]

And now a big with Robinette's departure..................Levi Cook?

from what Danny says, he has no interest in him. A back to the basket player.

[Garbanjo]

from what Danny says, he has no interest in him. A back to the basket player.

Thanks!

[herdorbust]

I recall last year a great deal of emphasis was placed on teaching defense, how did that work out? Now we are hearing the same tune, playing fast and players flying all over the floor on defense. Penava has some good attributes but he is slow getting off the floor and he is suppose to be our savior on defense inside.  Ryan's defense wasn't great but to often he was left alone to guard two players, his man and the breakaway coming down the lane. We all hope this year is different defensively, the D'Antoni bball history suggest that remains a big question mark.

Do you think anyone could have turned Taylor, Loop and Browning into great defensive p[layers? That is not a knock on them because I love all 3. But facts are facts. Danny did more for Loop's defense than even he thought was possible. I'll never forget the first practice Danny had with Loop. He told Loop to get in defensive position. Loop did and Danny took his finger to his chest and pushed back. Loop fell backwards. Danny said son how can you play defense on your heels? Loop couldn't guard an 80 year old lady when Danny got here. Danny got everything he could out of Loop and Loop became  a starter. But John Wooden couldn't have made them a great defensive team. Now Danny has the guards and depth to pressure and play in your face D. He can now play faster like he wants to (and again I won't get into that). Like I said come to practice ask questions and find out where Danny is going and you will know why he didn't take the quick fix. He is building a foundation with quality kids and not just for a 1-2 year run. I have learned more about basketball and how a program is built from Danny than all the other coaches combined. Then when you piece it all together. And get familiar with what he has done and why he has done things.Aand then you look on the floor and see the product and compare it from year to year. And whats coming back next year and the year after. You just smile and say...this is going to be fun. I'm telling you. You get way more out of Danny's practices than just seeing guys go up and down the floor.

[herdfifteen]

Wish I could attend a practice or two bust, but I ten nine hours away, am excited to be coming to homecoming this weekend. Your responses were reasonable and well thought out, of course, we all hope you are right.

[herdorbust]

Herdfifteen I understand a lot of people live far away. And I am thankful I live a few miles from the CAM. But it gets tiresome hearing some (not you) that don't actually know whats going on and how players are developing and can put the numbers in classes for the future, just generically down things. I am so impressed with DD and everything he does. We have a true gem in our hands and some don't even know it. I have never seen a better player development coach, not even close. I can't imagine anyone better at any level developing players. It's truly amazing watching the growth during practices from year to year and week to week. And the guy wants to be here and no where else period (even if he was 10 years younger). But remember his 70 is like most peoples 60 LOL. His dad was there the other day at 103. And i'm saying this as a guy that never had even spoke to Danny before he came here. He is just a lot of fun to watch.

[AEOS]

I recall last year a great deal of emphasis was placed on teaching defense, how did that work out? Now we are hearing the same tune, playing fast and players flying all over the floor on defense. Penava has some good attributes but he is slow getting off the floor and he is suppose to be our savior on defense inside.  Ryan's defense wasn't great but to often he was left alone to guard two players, his man and the breakaway coming down the lane. We all hope this year is different defensively, the D'Antoni bball history suggest that remains a big question mark.

I have to agree with most of the reports I've read about practice. I've been to several this year and the one of the things that stands out to me is we are better athletically. Burke and Watson are going to be tough to deal with if they are defending you. Way better than Loop and Browning. Also I think West is going to be a star. He is intense and understands the game. George can play now he is easily better than Phil and Christian though I see those guys contributing too. The other thing that stands out is they all can shoot the 3. Dan was all over them yesterday about staying focused especially when they are tired and want to quit. I will say they were a little sloppy yesterday but it was intense and they almost never take a break. I get exhausted watching them. So I'm with most of the guys that report from the practices if you don't believe us go see it for yourself. I am excited for the season to start.

[herdorbust]

Yep, Danny talked to them yesterday after practice about how you can't let your body make you believe it's tired. He said mentally you have to fight thru it. He said if 4 guys are fighting thru it and one guy shows fatigue, it destroys the entire unit. I've never seen a bunch of guys play so hard for a coach. They were absolutely whipped the last 30 minutes of practice and they were still pushing with all they had. I was talking to West and Danny after practice and Danny joked with west and said....how was your breathing? And West said my breathing was fine but my legs were about to go. Danny laughed and said yea right your breathing was fine. West said I swear coach, it was just my legs LOL. Then Jon is over there running hard sprints fullcourt after practice on his own. And i'm thinking....after what you have been thru the last 2.5 hrs and you are still running? Ever since Jon went to that NBA camp, he has shed all body fat and is slimmer and much quicker. He said they told him how to eat and what to work on. He is on a mission and I think he will have a shot at the league. But I think he would be well served to play the next 2 years here before he gives it a shot.

[Pud]

So how long do give a coach to "build" a program? Just curious as to when results like postseason play matter? Does getting to a Conf championship game and not going to a postseason tourney suffice? Not because my a jerk just would like that hear people's definition of a successful program.

[2xBison]

For DD, we give him 6 years given this is really only year 3.  He will go on own if it’s not working out