Topic: Does anyone recall why we don't "love" TCU?

[JEP3rd]

I was deeply involved with both programs during this period and felt like a series would be beneficial to both, and both Coach Pruett and Coach Fran were excited to play the games, good example though of how personalities and management styles can get in the way of a good idea.  There was nothing sinister, no deep dark conspiracy, just a misunderstanding initiated by an poorly thought-out and poorly worded communication during a time of incredibly high stress in the country, prior to the NCAA stepping in and properly (in my opinion) cancelling  all games that weekend.

Dshoe, appreciate the additional insights here.

Can you add more thoughts on this such as to what the 'bad' communication contained (was the bad communication both sides or mostly MU's side?), was there any more attempt to clarify/negotiate exactly where the two universities stood on this and why (and just wondering if ESPN did/could have pushed this along further to take a second look), was there any higher level involvement between the two university presidents at the time to get them back to the discussion table, and would that have been helpful here?

Thanks for adding to this if you can. It may be water under the bridge now, but maybe we all learn from this how to prevent that bad water flow in the future.

[ThunderingHerdFan]

I see now, you are correct about the number of games played. We lost to the one power team we played and we lost to Akron. Byron lost nothing as he got his 1st round draft pick, we won the MAC and we beat Louisville in the bowl. No loss suffered there. There was nothing lost so big that it can still be referenced 15 years later. We had a great year and were rewarded for it. We could have played and lost to TCU which would have been a negative on the year. No sinister conspiracies, no significant loss.

Tell that to the 38,016 gate Marshall would have had for TCU.

And then forget the circumstances around TCU, that's a home gate that was gone. One more chance to see Byron?  One more chance to be on ESPN perhaps?  You can't tell me we lost nothing that year, which was my sole reference.

You're too busy wound up to argue than just seeing my very simple point.

[MarshallGrad]

Tell that to the 38,016 gate Marshall would have had for TCU.

And then forget the circumstances around TCU, that's a home gate that was gone. One more chance to see Byron?  One more chance to be on ESPN perhaps?  You can't tell me we lost nothing that year, which was my sole reference.

You're too busy wound up to argue than just seeing my very simple point.

I don't get wound up. I'm not arguing, just responding to your post.

[NerdHaitian]

What the H does this have to do with the topic, or any other topic for that matter?

When I was in church as a kid it always freaked me out when people would say "what the H" or "H-E-double-hockeysticks."  Kind of a terrifying belief system, where you have the Almighty create a pit of endless punishment, torture and despair, and then even a believer can get sent there just for saying the name of the place.  That's some F'd up S.

[dshoe]

Dshoe, appreciate the additional insights here.

Can you add more thoughts on this such as to what the 'bad' communication contained (was the bad communication both sides or mostly MU's side?), was there any more attempt to clarify/negotiate exactly where the two universities stood on this and why (and just wondering if ESPN did/could have pushed this along further to take a second look), was there any higher level involvement between the two university presidents at the time to get them back to the discussion table, and would that have been helpful here?

Thanks for adding to this if you can. It may be water under the bridge now, but maybe we all learn from this how to prevent that bad water flow in the future.

It is definitely water under the bridge and then over the dam........ none of the people involved are at either university any longer at least not in the same capacity.

Suffice it to say, that TCU felt certain folks at Marshall handled some things very badly.....with no conversation or consultation with TCU's admin.  Personalities (or lack of) got in the way.  TCU AD reached out to me immediately, but the damage was done.

[MUther]

So Shoe, you're saying that they didn't insist the first game still be played at TCU and we didn't tell them to pound sand?  That's the only reason there could have been any misunderstanding.  The contract (which you apparently wrote) stated the first game was to be played at TCU.   Then the first game was cancelled and they tried to enforce that part of the contract rather than work within the spirit of the contract and events to keep the schedule intact and reschedule the first game at a point in the future.  If they had said we're coming up there next year as planned and we'll figure out something for the original game, as you're insinuating, what could we have wrongly communicated other than "See ya then." 

They wanted the first game and they wanted it despite what happened and we were screwed either way so we didn't reward them with getting their way.  That's the only logical misunderstanding, which is actually perfectly clear, that could have occurred and it's was told to me by people that know, back then, despite whatever TCU's AD's damage control BS was relayed to you.

[dshoe]

So Shoe, you're saying that they didn't insist the first game still be played at TCU and we didn't tell them to pound sand?  That's the only reason there could have been any misunderstanding.  The contract (which you apparently wrote) stated the first game was to be played at TCU.   Then the first game was cancelled and they tried to enforce that part of the contract rather than work within the spirit of the contract and events to keep the schedule intact and reschedule the first game at a point in the future.  If they had said we're coming up there next year as planned and we'll figure out something for the original game, as you're insinuating, what could we have wrongly communicated other than "See ya then." 

They wanted the first game and they wanted it despite what happened and we were screwed either way so we didn't reward them with getting their way.  That's the only logical misunderstanding, which is actually perfectly clear, that could have occurred and it's was told to me by people that know, back then, despite whatever TCU's AD's damage control BS was relayed to you.

none of that is what happened

[Herdmeister]

I just know I bought 2 tickets that I never did get a refund for.   >:(

[2xBison]

I just know I bought 2 tickets that I never did get a refund for.   >:(

I don't think I did either

[yogiherd]

I just know I bought 2 tickets that I never did get a refund for.   >:(

I didn't get the refund for my three tickets.

[wasbarryb]

At this point, if any refunds were due, it well beyond any statute of limitations.

Get over it.

[2xBison]

Thank you Counselor

[parshall2marshall]

Since the thread won't seem to die, let me chip in that, as I recall DS originally used TCU scheduling due to moving to a new conference as the primary problem. Maybe I am not reading well, but that issue seems to take a back seat in this thread to hard feelings developing, if even mentioned at all.

I feel certain that MU wanted to play them at least once with Firin' Byron at the helm and I don't think TCU wanted any part of that, but I am not in a position to know. I can see how MU could develop some bad feelings if the series was relegated to far in the future, especially with MU brass that must have been knowing dark clouds were just beginning to gather over our Program for 2003-2008.

Without checking, I believe that is was around this time that TCU suffered a home loss to a I-AA/FCS and sensitivities over thee could have been elevated because of it. Our such pooch-screw came later at the hands of NH when Snyder held Bernie Morris out too long.

2001-2002 was our time to shine, and the 2003/4 Herd was deep and talented ( led by the Father of Sacketry in Johnathan Goddard ) as evidenced by @OSU and @UGA, although our key MAC performances in ought-three and '04 left the conspiracy meter shaking violently.

p2m

[MUther]

none of that is what happened

Yes, I'm sure the TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming with an ESPN producer after they torpedoed the deal he put together, especially given their desire to move into a bigger home for their program at that time.

[dshoe]

Yes, I'm sure the TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming with an ESPN producer after they torpedoed the deal he put together, especially given their desire to move into a bigger home for their program at that time.

Wow,
You are making a sarcastic assumption that not only is in error, but just plain doesn't apply and shows how little fans often really understand about the business of college athletics.  For what it's worth, ESPN had nothing to do with scheduling this series, it was entirely about personal relationships with the people involved.  Unfortunately on 9/11 i became stranded in Puerto Rico for 5 days initally with no communications with the US, Eric Hyman Tried to involve me, an issue initiated by MU AD and his "communications style", resulted in a falling out between the two that became unrepairable.

I have no desire to rehash this's, but suffice it to say that MU lost a golden opportunity to advance the program and a relationship at a critical time in the program's evolution

And oh yes,  The TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming about the issue including sharing first hand some of the exchanges.....i saw and heard the "originals"

[The E-Man]

Wow,
You are making a sarcastic assumption that not only is in error, but just plain doesn't apply and shows how little fans often really understand about the business of college athletics.  For what it's worth, ESPN had nothing to do with scheduling this series, it was entirely about personal relationships with the people involved.  Unfortunately on 9/11 i became stranded in Puerto Rico for 5 days initally with no communications with the US, Eric Hyman Tried to involve me, an issue initiated by MU AD and his "communications style", resulted in a falling out between the two that became unrepairable.

I have no desire to rehash this's, but suffice it to say that MU lost a golden opportunity to advance the program and a relationship at a critical time in the program's evolution

And oh yes,  The TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming about the issue including sharing first hand some of the exchanges.....i saw and heard the "originals"

Again, Marshall should have hired you as an athletic director. I have no doubt in my mind where our program would be right now had they made you the ad. I don't think the average Herd fan know's how well you're connected to the major networks. Prime example, when you part of the program in the 90's, we were always on TV. We never had a problem with exposure! In fact, we were on TV more than a lot of D-1 schools at that time.