Topic: SHR: US News says...

[marshallmark]

8 second Google search:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, participants in syringe exchange programs are five times more likely to enter drug treatment programs. They're 3.5 times more likely to stop injecting drugs. Research also shows that more than 90 percent of syringes distributed are returned.

[svherd]

8 second Google search:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, participants in syringe exchange programs are five times more likely to enter drug treatment programs. They're 3.5 times more likely to stop injecting drugs. Research also shows that more than 90 percent of syringes distributed are returned.

Then why hasn't it worked for Huntington? Why are we referred to as Americas recovery house? Look, I appreciate you as a poster and your history with our school and town. I just don't see where all the so called steps the city has supposedly taken over the last 3-4 years has helped. Obviously, we need to try something else or we'll continue to lose population. I would hate to see Brad Smith's and Marshall efforts to be lost in a city that can't correct a huge issue that keeps people from moving here. jmho.

[marshallmark]

Then why hasn't it worked for Huntington? Why are we referred to as Americas recovery house? Look, I appreciate you as a poster and your history with our school and town. I just don't see where all the so called steps the city has supposedly taken over the last 3-4 years has helped. Obviously, we need to try something else or we'll continue to lose population. I would hate to see Brad Smith's and Marshall efforts to be lost in a city that can't correct a huge issue that keeps people from moving here. jmho.

Huntington is no longer on those "lists" of overdose capitals in the US.  Its been highlighted on national news as a leader in treatment, first responder efficacy, and first responder support.  Do you not remember when there were regular reports of needles in downtown?  At Harris Riverfront park?  Of encampments along the river?  Today?  Not so much.

Listen -- I get your frustrations.  There are real problems in Huntington and every other single city in the state, region and country.  It has an aging population, a declining tax base, and an oft-broken infrastructure that needs replaced but for which there is little $.  The housing market is limited, and homes over $200k are few/far between. 

That said, Huntington has a thriving downtown.  Its food scene is the best in WV, bar none.  Property values are rising faster than most of the rest of the state.  Marshall is in the beginning of a huge upswing and enrollment is up significantly (as opposed to that other state institution up north).  Employment is up.  Wages are up.  Health care in the area is the best between Lexington and Pittsburgh.  The arts is thriving, with the best (by far) museum in the state. We have a secret gem in Heritage Farm, and a not-so-secret gem in Ritter Park. 

As Monty Python said... "Just Look on the Bright Side of Life" - be optimistic.  There's lots of reasons to be. 

[marshallmark]

One other thing... Huntington has never been just the city limits of Huntington.  Its the entire area, mainly b/c the legislature won't allow it to expand.  But, Cabell County has actually increased in population that more than offsets the slowing loss of population inside the city limits.  I live just outside the city but still consider myself to be a Huntingtonian.  I'm sure most of us that live nearby do as well. 

[svherd]

Huntington is no longer on those "lists" of overdose capitals in the US.  Its been highlighted on national news as a leader in treatment, first responder efficacy, and first responder support.  Do you not remember when there were regular reports of needles in downtown?  At Harris Riverfront park?  Of encampments along the river?  Today?  Not so much.

Listen -- I get your frustrations.  There are real problems in Huntington and every other single city in the state, region and country.  It has an aging population, a declining tax base, and an oft-broken infrastructure that needs replaced but for which there is little $.  The housing market is limited, and homes over $200k are few/far between. 

That said, Huntington has a thriving downtown.  Its food scene is the best in WV, bar none.  Property values are rising faster than most of the rest of the state.  Marshall is in the beginning of a huge upswing and enrollment is up significantly (as opposed to that other state institution up north).  Employment is up.  Wages are up.  Health care in the area is the best between Lexington and Pittsburgh.  The arts is thriving, with the best (by far) museum in the state. We have a secret gem in Heritage Farm, and a not-so-secret gem in Ritter Park. 

As Monty Python said... "Just Look on the Bright Side of Life" - be optimistic.  There's lots of reasons to be.

Great post Mark.

[herd2win]

I recently was in town to visit my mom and I like what I am seeing with Huntington and Marshall.  With proper leadership Huntington can turn into one of those cool college towns with fun bars and restaurants and make the riverfront special and Ritter Park.

Add in the new programs President Smith is bringing to live Marshall forward I really believe this can happen.  All about leadership and attitude.

[marshallmark]

According to US News, #86 best place to live and #48 best place to retire.  Not too shabby.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

"We're Number 86 . . . We're Number 86! . . ." !! That surely should bring people desiring to move to, and live in, Huntington to the City by droves, full railroad cars, private vehicles streaming in both directions on I-64, etc., etc.

Yet, does anyone wanna bet that when the results of the 2030 Census are finally released, Huntington's population will NOT be even LOWER than that in the 2020 Census??

You're right.

Here's another thing. These lists a lot of times place a heavy emphases on cost of living. Cost of living data is most effected by housing costs. Housing costs are most effected by people wanting to live there...or not. So it's a really, really misleading statistic that actually is more of a negative thing than a positive. It then skews these rankings into making bad places look good...putting bad places on the list that never should have been say in the top 100 or even 200.

Is a low cost of living good. Absolutely YES. But it is ALSO the #1 indicator that relatively few people want to live there. The cost of living in the desert is really good. The cost of living around Chernobyl is probably great! The cost of living in any town where people are fleeing is much better than where people are flocking to. But then these dumb arse rankings use that cost of living as one of the most critical factors for ranking the place high.

Poor leadership has failed Huntington. Some dumb study can rank Huntington #1 next month...and yet by 2030 (as coalherd alluded to) 1000's of more families, representing 5-10k more people, will have fled the place.

**I will add this. All hope is not lost. I just hope the city can one day get the right leadership where the bulk of their focus is on bringing in jobs and doing the small things to make the city look clean and well kept. It's crazy we haven't utilized the river downtown more. It's crazy what our current mayor spends his time and the city's money on.**

[marshallmark]

You're right.

Here's another thing. These lists a lot of times place a heavy emphases on cost of living. Cost of living data is most effected by housing costs. Housing costs are most effected by people wanting to live there...or not. So it's a really, really misleading statistic that actually is more of a negative thing than a positive. It then skews these rankings into making bad places look good...putting bad places on the list that never should have been say in the top 100 or even 200.

Is a low cost of living good. Absolutely YES. But it is ALSO the #1 indicator that relatively few people want to live there. The cost of living in the desert is really good. The cost of living around Chernobyl is probably great! The cost of living in any town where people are fleeing is much better than where people are flocking to. But then these dumb arse rankings use that cost of living as one of the most critical factors for ranking the place high.

Poor leadership has failed Huntington. Some dumb study can rank Huntington #1 next month...and yet by 2030 (as coalherd alluded to) 1000's of more families, representing 5-10k more people, will have fled the place.

Here ya' go:  https://realestate.usnews.com/places/methodology  Cost of living IS a factor, but only one of many. 

[THECHAMPISHERE]

Here ya' go:  https://realestate.usnews.com/places/methodology  Cost of living IS a factor, but only one of many.

Looks like the Value Index (Cost of Living) is 27% of the total ranking. We likely scored sky high in this area. I can't imagine us realistically doing very well in the rest of the indexes. This alone is likely what got us up to #86. This is exactly what I mean.

Thank you for the link. And I'm not trying to sh!t on Huntington. There is always hope. Our leadership has been taking us backwards for 100 years. It's sad.

[herdorbust2]

All I know is I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. This is my home and I love Huntington and the surrounding areas, especially the Spring Valley area that I live in. I live in the part of the country that reflects my views and I'm very thankful for that. I'm not crazy about the winter but it really makes me appreciate spring, summer and fall. Yes Huntington could be better just like anywhere else. But it is a very beautiful city with so much potential. River, Interstate and a very nice Ritter Park. 2 major Trauma hospitals and a major university. And as someone else said a very large restaurant selection that will rival virtually anywhere. With Toyota close by and Nucor coming this City could explode with growth with a few more additions like a regional airport because it has a LOT going for it. I'm thankful everyday that I was raised here and still live here. JMO!!!

[MUther]

Looks like the Value Index (Cost of Living) is 27% of the total ranking. We likely scored sky high in this area. I can't imagine us realistically doing very well in the rest of the indexes. This alone is likely what got us up to #86. This is exactly what I mean.

Thank you for the link. And I'm not trying to sh!t on Huntington. There is always hope. Our leadership has been taking us backwards for 100 years. It's sad.

If only the railroad had remained a primary source of transportation and mover of goods.  Interstates gave people quick access to other areas that embraced change and growth.  Huntington chose to route their connection away from the city.  That also coincided with beginning of the decline for the once proud city.  People could now leave the area and did in droves.  I remember in high school, about 1985, when a lot of teachers were having problems with the state and the state of education here and they took off for North Carolina.  A lot of industry dwindled in the region around then, too, or a  little before.  Airport cities took off and to this day they have large Marshall alumni groups located in those cities. 

Sometime in the 60s-70s, Huntington should have pivoted and embraced easy access, opened up to the outside world, and given up on trying to remain a hidden gem untouched by outside influence.   And that includes telling Charleston to shove it and putting a regional airport in a valley within 20 miles of the city with a corridor of interstate running from downtown directly to the airport, piggy-backed onto I-64.  Huntington, with the river, the rail, an interstate providing exposure, and a regional airport, would have thrived despite what was happening to the state due to corrupt and inept politicians.  Same thing from Charleston coming from the East into Teays Valley.  Two cities expanded 20 short miles towards each other with a major airport in between would have boomed this whole thing into a mega hub. Could you imagine the mall wedged right smack between Huntington and a major airport for 45 years and all of that annexed by the city and a casino from the other direction?  And all the other business that would have bloomed along that corridor.  it would have been like Corridor G stretching from Huntington to Charleston.

And it would have been cheap to do before everything was over-regulated and the EPA had a firm lock on any developing industry.  I think the area would have had enough economic power to change the whole state and probably to eliminate state taxes completely.

[BuckHerd]

If only the railroad had remained a primary source of transportation and mover of goods.  Interstates gave people quick access to other areas that embraced change and growth.  Huntington chose to route their connection away from the city.  That also coincided with beginning of the decline for the once proud city.  People could now leave the area and did in droves.  I remember in high school, about 1985, when a lot of teachers were having problems with the state and the state of education here and they took off for North Carolina.  A lot of industry dwindled in the region around then, too, or a  little before.  Airport cities took off and to this day they have large Marshall alumni groups located in those cities. 


Great post! Especially, getting a regional airport!! I'm tired of these little fiefdoms being protected at the detriment of the rest of the state. That's exactly what happened to Huntington decades ago when the "city fathers and business owners" prevented the downtown area from changing. Thus, you get the mall in B'ville and other activity in South Point, OH.



Sometime in the 60s-70s, Huntington should have pivoted and embraced easy access, opened up to the outside world, and given up on trying to remain a hidden gem untouched by outside influence.   And that includes telling Charleston to shove it and putting a regional airport in a valley within 20 miles of the city with a corridor of interstate running from downtown directly to the airport, piggy-backed onto I-64.  Huntington, with the river, the rail, an interstate providing exposure, and a regional airport, would have thrived despite what was happening to the state due to corrupt and inept politicians.  Same thing from Charleston coming from the East into Teays Valley.  Two cities expanded 20 short miles towards each other with a major airport in between would have boomed this whole thing into a mega hub. Could you imagine the mall wedged right smack between Huntington and a major airport for 45 years and all of that annexed by the city and a casino from the other direction?  And all the other business that would have bloomed along that corridor.  it would have been like Corridor G stretching from Huntington to Charleston.

And it would have been cheap to do before everything was over-regulated and the EPA had a firm lock on any developing industry.  I think the area would have had enough economic power to change the whole state and probably to eliminate state taxes completely.

[goherd73]

I used to think routing  the Interstate around Huntington was a big mistake.....but not any more.

let's compare two cities near Huntington that are/were comparable in size, Charleston and Lexington.

Charleston decided to run nearly every damned Interstate in WV through their city in hopes of growing Charleston. It divided a thriving minority community and certainly didn't help their downtown or their downtown Mall. Charleston is losing population faster than Huntington and their downtown is not nearly as vibrant as Huntington's. Plus if you are outside any where between South Charleston all the way up to the State Capitol, you can hear the noise of the interstate. You can't get away from it.

Lexington (like Huntington) decided to run it's Interstate outside the City. It's thriving and growing. If you're traveling through Lexington via I-64 or I-75 you never see the skyline of the city, wouldn't even know it's there. At least in Huntington you can see the skyline if you're traveling east on I-64 around Westmoreland/Wayne county area.

I feel the reason for Lexington's success and growth depended on a couple of things:
They combined city and county into one entity. I think that's the secret of their success. It eliminates the fighting between the City and the County. The WV Legislature is too provincial and rural controlled to allow anything to benefit our cities.

Imagine what Huntington and Charleston would be like if the WV Legislature would allow this to happen? Both cities population would be well over 150,000 instead of under 50,000.

Lexington's past job's were not based on rust-belt industries (like Huntington and Charleston) but on the Horse industry and businesses locating in Lexington due to UK (sort of like what Marshall is doing now).

[svherd]

I used to think routing  the Interstate around Huntington was a big mistake.....but not any more.

let's compare two cities near Huntington that are/were comparable in size, Charleston and Lexington.

Charleston decided to run nearly every damned Interstate in WV through their city in hopes of growing Charleston. It divided a thriving minority community and certainly didn't help their downtown or their downtown Mall. Charleston is losing population faster than Huntington and their downtown is not nearly as vibrant as Huntington's. Plus if you are outside any where between South Charleston all the way up to the State Capitol, you can hear the noise of the interstate. You can't get away from it.

Lexington (like Huntington) decided to run it's Interstate outside the City. It's thriving and growing. If you're traveling through Lexington via I-64 or I-75 you never see the skyline of the city, wouldn't even know it's there. At least in Huntington you can see the skyline if you're traveling east on I-64 around Westmoreland/Wayne county area.

I feel the reason for Lexington's success and growth depended on a couple of things:
They combined city and county into one entity. I think that's the secret of their success. It eliminates the fighting between the City and the County. The WV Legislature is too provincial and rural controlled to allow anything to benefit our cities.

Imagine what Huntington and Charleston would be like if the WV Legislature would allow this to happen? Both cities population would be well over 150,000 instead of under 50,000.

Lexington's past job's were not based on rust-belt industries (like Huntington and Charleston) but on the Horse industry and businesses locating in Lexington due to UK (sort of like what Marshall is doing now).

Fact - In 1950, Huntington's population was larger than Lexington. Thank about that. Crazy.

[goherd73]

Fact - In 1950, Huntington's population was larger than Lexington. Thank about that. Crazy.

In large part due to city and county combining.
Lexington population in 1960 was 62,000
Lexington population in 1980 after combining with Fayette county in 1974 was 204,000.

What would Huntington's population be if it included Cabell county?

[MUther]

I used to think routing  the Interstate around Huntington was a big mistake.....but not any more.

let's compare two cities near Huntington that are/were comparable in size, Charleston and Lexington.

Charleston decided to run nearly every damned Interstate in WV through their city in hopes of growing Charleston. It divided a thriving minority community and certainly didn't help their downtown or their downtown Mall. Charleston is losing population faster than Huntington and their downtown is not nearly as vibrant as Huntington's. Plus if you are outside any where between South Charleston all the way up to the State Capitol, you can hear the noise of the interstate. You can't get away from it.

Lexington (like Huntington) decided to run it's Interstate outside the City. It's thriving and growing. If you're traveling through Lexington via I-64 or I-75 you never see the skyline of the city, wouldn't even know it's there. At least in Huntington you can see the skyline if you're traveling east on I-64 around Westmoreland/Wayne county area.

I feel the reason for Lexington's success and growth depended on a couple of things:
They combined city and county into one entity. I think that's the secret of their success. It eliminates the fighting between the City and the County. The WV Legislature is too provincial and rural controlled to allow anything to benefit our cities.

Imagine what Huntington and Charleston would be like if the WV Legislature would allow this to happen? Both cities population would be well over 150,000 instead of under 50,000.

Lexington's past job's were not based on rust-belt industries (like Huntington and Charleston) but on the Horse industry and businesses locating in Lexington due to UK (sort of like what Marshall is doing now).

In my proposal, we would have extended Huntington to absorb the interstate to Teays Valley and Charleston the same from the other direction.  Two cities annexing everything between them and the airport, including the mall and the casino in Cross Lanes.  That's most of the county and some of Putnam.  We don't have to put the interstate downtown.  We have to put the city along the interstate to a destination.  Couldn't do it now, though.  Barboursville got too rich off the mall and would never let Huntington combine everything.  Could have done it in the earlier 70s though when all this was being planned.

[herdfan129]

8 second Google search:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, participants in syringe exchange programs are five times more likely to enter drug treatment programs. They're 3.5 times more likely to stop injecting drugs. Research also shows that more than 90 percent of syringes distributed are returned.

You can?t be this gullible. There are needles left laying around all the time. This isn?t a need exchange, it?s a free needle give away.

I can?t believe people are seriously incapable of using common sense and thinking for themselves.

[marshallmark]

You can?t be this gullible. There are needles left laying around all the time. This isn?t a need exchange, it?s a free needle give away.

I can?t believe people are seriously incapable of using common sense and thinking for themselves.

First of all, I cited to empirical evidence.  Not my opinion.  My gullibility, or lack thereof, never entered that post.

Secondly, there certainly is anecdotal evidence of needles being found "laying around".  No question.  As there are in any city.  However, if you read the studies and statistics coming from the Cabell-Huntington Health Department - not national or state-wide - they collect almost as many needles as they give out.  That has a huge effect on the needle litter that's on the street.  Every health care worker that I've seen cited says that the harm reduction policy works and I'm inclined to listen to the experts.  And it certainly IS an exchange program - no needles are passed out unless the person asking for them provides a like number of used needles. 

[Ovaltine Jenkins]

I used to think routing  the Interstate around Huntington was a big mistake.....but not any more.

let's compare two cities near Huntington that are/were comparable in size, Charleston and Lexington.

Charleston decided to run nearly every damned Interstate in WV through their city in hopes of growing Charleston. It divided a thriving minority community and certainly didn't help their downtown or their downtown Mall. Charleston is losing population faster than Huntington and their downtown is not nearly as vibrant as Huntington's. Plus if you are outside any where between South Charleston all the way up to the State Capitol, you can hear the noise of the interstate. You can't get away from it.

Lexington (like Huntington) decided to run it's Interstate outside the City. It's thriving and growing. If you're traveling through Lexington via I-64 or I-75 you never see the skyline of the city, wouldn't even know it's there. At least in Huntington you can see the skyline if you're traveling east on I-64 around Westmoreland/Wayne county area.

I feel the reason for Lexington's success and growth depended on a couple of things:
They combined city and county into one entity. I think that's the secret of their success. It eliminates the fighting between the City and the County. The WV Legislature is too provincial and rural controlled to allow anything to benefit our cities.

Imagine what Huntington and Charleston would be like if the WV Legislature would allow this to happen? Both cities population would be well over 150,000 instead of under 50,000.

Lexington's past job's were not based on rust-belt industries (like Huntington and Charleston) but on the Horse industry and businesses locating in Lexington due to UK (sort of like what Marshall is doing now).

Some great points about government mental structure. I never understood why West Virginia hasn't embraced county government. Being from SoWV, there is no need for duplication of services by Bluefield and Princeton, when a Mercer County structure would offer more economies of scale across the board. Same for Huntington and Cabell County and Charleston and Kanawha County. I too thought not routing 64 through the city to be a mistake, but the current setup seems to be working for the city.

As one who left WV many years ago, many of us "expats" talk about the state's potential. If it could get its political act together, I would consider relocation. But taxing SS is a non-starter and the lack of cultural and social outlets for me are obstacles.

[marshallmark]

In large part due to city and county combining.
Lexington population in 1960 was 62,000
Lexington population in 1980 after combining with Fayette county in 1974 was 204,000.

What would Huntington's population be if it included Cabell county?

Back in the mid-1980s, my father was a County Commissioner for Cabell County.  He saw the same thing that you've noted, and pushed hard to explore combining Cabell and Huntington.  He even brought up the administrator for Lexington-Fayette to talk to some of our legislators and the City's representatives, but it never went anywhere.  I believe that the legislature, as a whole, wasn't going to take it up b/c its mainly controlled by rural delegates and senators and they don't want the cities to expand or become more powerful. 

[Johnnyherd]

Those living in Huntington, besides maybe having someone going through your car?s glovebox and console, or someone asking for a spare change or a dollar which happens in about any town or city with drugs or a homeless population.

Have you been kidnapped, held at gunpoint, shot, stabbed, violently beaten, raped, had a home invasion burglary with you were home or been a victim of terrorism?

You don?t have to say which one? Just say yes

[herdorbust2]

Those living in Huntington, besides maybe having someone going through your car?s glovebox and console, or someone asking for a spare change or a dollar which happens in about any town or city with drugs or a homeless population.

Have you been kidnapped, held at gunpoint, shot, stabbed, violently beaten, raped, had a home invasion burglary with you were home or been a victim of terrorism?

You don?t have to say which one? Just say yes

Never!!

[herdfan129]

Back in the mid-1980s, my father was a County Commissioner for Cabell County.  He saw the same thing that you've noted, and pushed hard to explore combining Cabell and Huntington.  He even brought up the administrator for Lexington-Fayette to talk to some of our legislators and the City's representatives, but it never went anywhere.  I believe that the legislature, as a whole, wasn't going to take it up b/c its mainly controlled by rural delegates and senators and they don't want the cities to expand or become more powerful.

People choose to live outside of the city limits for a reason. No reason to expand city limits and force them to move.

Maybe the city should do a better job of attracting people to move in to the city.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

Those living in Huntington, besides maybe having someone going through your car?s glovebox and console, or someone asking for a spare change or a dollar which happens in about any town or city with drugs or a homeless population.

Have you been kidnapped, held at gunpoint, shot, stabbed, violently beaten, raped, had a home invasion burglary with you were home or been a victim of terrorism?

You don?t have to say which one? Just say yes

Violent crime isn't what is holding Huntington back. It's the lack of vision, innovation, ideas. It's the constant string of excuses of why we can't. It's the inability to attract jobs to the area. It's having zero pride and letting the city deteriorate...it's not being able to keep the dang grass mowed downtown. It's backwards thinking...using resources to make sure an 18 year old kid out push mowing yards has a business license when that time and effort could be used to attract major corporations to the area.

Anybody remember when for like 3 months they made Taco Bell the anchor store of Kinetic Park because they listed the businesses on the main sign by proximity TO the sign instead of by importance or relevance to the Tech Industry? It's that type of ignorance that holds Huntington back. That Kinetic Park hill would be fully landscaped in 80% of other cities...instead of looking wild and literally abandoned as it does now.