Topic: Bogaczyk: Bowl or not, Snyder still could exit Marshall sidelines

[field pass]

I have been trying to look at this more objectively of late.  We have a pretty good football team right now and when you look at what is coming back you have to think we can be better next year.  On offense we have all our RBs back, all our WRs back plus Evans+Rynes+Crawford, Smith and Hatten at TE, and the majority of our Oline plus those 5 guys we have redshirting this year. On defense we lose two starters out of the front 7 and only one out of the D-backfield.  I like our young talent on both sides of the ball.  Like it or not the credit for that has to go to Snyder.

If we change coaches now, even with the elevated talent, chances are next year will not be good.  Think of how USM started last year.  They had an experienced talented team, more talented and experienced then we will be starting next year, but they started slow then jelled the last half of the year and this year they are only one game better than us in the standings.  Bower could have probably had them in the exact same place.  We also risk having some of that young talent leave, something else that has to be considered.

We lost to ECU by 4, UCF by 1 and USM by 7.  Yes we did lose, but all three of those game could have gone either way.  ECU loses if they don't have the WR laying on his back catch.  UCF loses if Anderson doesn't fumble.  It's the first time we played all three of those teams close in the same season.  Likewise, we beat every team we should have definately beat this year.  That's the first time we have done that under Snyder.  I think this means that next year we will have a team that truly expects to win instead of wants to/hopes to win.

The Snyder flipside is that I think we are still too undisiplined as a team, too many penalties, and appear unprepared for certain game situations (like two-minute offense, defense against the two-minute offense).  He still plays too conservative with a lead inthe second half, although he didn't against SMU.  You also have the fact that a lot of the fan base has no love for him and the resulting financial impact.

Bottom line, if I were Hamrick I wouldn't have made a decision yet but I would make one on Sunday.  I would be leaning toward keeping him for one more year based on where we stand today versus where we stood at the end of 2007 because I look at the first couple years as new coach learning curve years.

Unless Im mistaken...Bowling Green had a coach in 2000 that wasnt winning near the end of his tenure.  So, they let him go and brought in a guy named Urban Meyer and he started winning with the old coaches players immediately.  I tend to think that whatever Snyder can do with our talented roster next year, a half way decent new coach could do better.

[luvherd]

A new coach can win - Pruett in 96 - undefeated with Nat'l championship

[sdfgoherd]

Agreed. We stuck with Jirsa too long and it drove the fans away for good.

We can't do that with football.

GS.

not just Jirsa. Marshall's decline started under White and continued under Jirsa. I quit attending games White's last year and haven't been back. It is so true bit it is no longer part of my life so it is hard to get back to it. It is not about winning it is about that part of your life being filled with other things so for me to go back changes how I deal with the kids and their activities. I don't want that to happen with football but just like last season we are seriously considering dropping season tickets and I know once we do it will be very hard to go back.

[sdfgoherd]

A new coach can win - Pruett in 96 - undefeated with Nat'l championship

Donnavan had success and played exciting bball after Freeman. I agree the right coach can win. I think that is why RichRod is in trouble at Michigan.

Snyder put his team in the psition to lose the UCF game because of his hold on to won metality so that magnifies the Anderson fumble. Marshall was dominating that game and Snyder refused to go in for the kill. Nothing wrong withe beating a team 42-7 we used to do that
all the time.

[Marshall Faithful]

Agreed Mckayt.  The unknown worries me, as well as Hamrick's football coach hiring record.  It has been a very slow process, but we are just now competitive and winning games.  Next year looks to be even better.  Next year gives us our best chance yet to beat WVU.  One of the biggest issues with Snyder has been QB play.  Next year we return Anderson (a senior with experience) and AJ Graham, who looks to have a promising future.  Can we afford to bring someone in, lose players, and rebuild while someone puts in their "system?"  I have been on the proverbial fence with Snyder, but if we go 7-5 and go bowling, I am leaning in favor of keeping him.   Sure, I was expecting 9-3 or 8-4 at the worst, but this team had to learn how to win.  I am not ready for another rebuilding process. 

Furthermore...very good point with attendance.  MU fans are not showing up for anything right now.  We have yet to eclipse 5000 at any bball game that does have the excitement of an improving program, winning games and a quality coach.  WVU sold out the civic center against Citadel Tuesday night...let's see what MU does with Ohio tomorrow night.  I will be there and taking 3 with me, but I completely expect half or less than the attendance of the WVU game.

I agree with you 100%.  But I wish Marshall used more of a quick strike offence (as everyone on here does).  Doug Smock made a good point several days ago about MU not having a good 2 minute offence the past 5 years.  I think if you base your offence of a high scoring one the 2 minute drill is just another possession.  Of course Marshall may not have had the player to do that effectively these past few years.  Keep those fingers crossed, and GO HERD!

[Marshall Faithful]

Convenient that the fans can always find someone else to blame... We have to do our part.  bottomline.

I agree.  You are either a fan or not.  If someone can get out of the habit of going to the games (as another poster stated) I have to wonder how big a fan they were in the first place.

[Marshall Faithful]

"Agreed. We stuck with Jirsa too long and it drove the fans away for good.

We can't do that with football.

GS. "

Many keep saying that a new football coach is needed to regain the attendance though.  Not saying that you said that, but this theory would suggest that Marshall Football fans would already be driven away for good.  I think the truth is that there is still a lot of doubt concerning the basketball program.  The basketball team has yet to have a good finish under Coach Jones and the fans will not come back in droves until we have some championship seasons; some postseason appearances.  If we hire a new football coach, it will be the same way.  People will come in small numbers at first to see the new product, but will never come back in droves until we field a winner.  Winning truly does cure everything.  If we win two more games in football, you will see a change in attitudes around here too.  If this team finishes 8-5 plus the usual offseason hype that energizes the fans plus the fact that WVU is coming to Huntington next year, you will see plenty of people in the seats next year IF WE WIN.  If we beat WVU, which is very possible, plus field a winner against the conference foes we could set attendance records next year.  It's all about the Ws.
 

 

You are 100% correct!  As you said, winning is the tonic this program needs.

[Marshall Faithful]

I have been trying to look at this more objectively of late.  We have a pretty good football team right now and when you look at what is coming back you have to think we can be better next year.  On offense we have all our RBs back, all our WRs back plus Evans+Rynes+Crawford, Smith and Hatten at TE, and the majority of our Oline plus those 5 guys we have redshirting this year. On defense we lose two starters out of the front 7 and only one out of the D-backfield.  I like our young talent on both sides of the ball.  Like it or not the credit for that has to go to Snyder.

If we change coaches now, even with the elevated talent, chances are next year will not be good.  Think of how USM started last year.  They had an experienced talented team, more talented and experienced then we will be starting next year, but they started slow then jelled the last half of the year and this year they are only one game better than us in the standings.  Bower could have probably had them in the exact same place.  We also risk having some of that young talent leave, something else that has to be considered.

We lost to ECU by 4, UCF by 1 and USM by 7.  Yes we did lose, but all three of those game could have gone either way.  ECU loses if they don't have the WR laying on his back catch.  UCF loses if Anderson doesn't fumble.  It's the first time we played all three of those teams close in the same season.  Likewise, we beat every team we should have definately beat this year.  That's the first time we have done that under Snyder.  I think this means that next year we will have a team that truly expects to win instead of wants to/hopes to win.

The Snyder flipside is that I think we are still too undisiplined as a team, too many penalties, and appear unprepared for certain game situations (like two-minute offense, defense against the two-minute offense).  He still plays too conservative with a lead inthe second half, although he didn't against SMU.  You also have the fact that a lot of the fan base has no love for him and the resulting financial impact.

Bottom line, if I were Hamrick I wouldn't have made a decision yet but I would make one on Sunday.  I would be leaning toward keeping him for one more year based on where we stand today versus where we stood at the end of 2007 because I look at the first couple years as new coach learning curve years.

Good breakdown and I agree with your bottom line. 

[Marshall Faithful]

not just Jirsa. Marshall's decline started under White and continued under Jirsa. I quit attending games White's last year and haven't been back. It is so true bit it is no longer part of my life so it is hard to get back to it. It is not about winning it is about that part of your life being filled with other things so for me to go back changes how I deal with the kids and their activities. I don't want that to happen with football but just like last season we are seriously considering dropping season tickets and I know once we do it will be very hard to go back.

I stand corrected.  I had said previously "If someone can get out of the habit of going to the games I have to wonder how big a fan they were in the first place."  I guess I hadn't thought it through.

Family, especially kids, come first.  And as you know, as they get older they get involved in more things, which take away from things we, as adults, would usually be doing.

[jn4theHERD]

"Can Hamrick do that? We'll see. Marshall should be careful what it wishes for, because Hamrick's two past head football coaching hires have been, to be charitable, just plain bad."

 Like it or not, we have been very competitive in every game we played except Virginia Tech.  Bogazyck makes many very good points though. 

Competitive? Our coach gave away at least three games this year. That is not competitive it is poor coaching!

[jn4theHERD]

I agree.  You are either a fan or not.  If someone can get out of the habit of going to the games (as another poster stated) I have to wonder how big a fan they were in the first place.

I live 500 miles from Huntington. Before the Marcum era I was able to see just about evry game either on TV or I would drive up Saturday morning and be able to make it by 7pm. Marcum changed the start times to 1pm and we were seldom on TV. That is why I haven't been to many games at home.

God bless channelsurfing.net this year.

[ru4mu2]

I live 500 miles from Huntington. Before the Marcum era I was able to see just about evry game either on TV or I would drive up Saturday morning and be able to make it by 7pm. Marcum changed the start times to 1pm and we were seldom on TV. That is why I haven't been to many games at home.

God bless channelsurfing.net this year.

I have to ask, because I can't remember, what games did we have at 1:00 PM?

[Thundering Lydia]

I agree.  You are either a fan or not.  If someone can get out of the habit of going to the games (as another poster stated) I have to wonder how big a fan they were in the first place.

You can call them whatever you want---fans, non-fans, consumers, alumni, pond-scum, casual sports enthusiasts---but the fact remains:  If they quit coming and quit donating, you're better off figuring out a way to get them back rather than just say, "Well, they aren't REAL fans anyway."

A TERRIBLY short-sighted notion, that is.

Those people who aren't "REAL" fans are DESPERATELY needed, because they make our dollars (mine, yours AND theirs) go a LOT farther.  If we don't win them back and keep them on board, we're ALL just pi$$ing in the wind, singing "We are the sons of Marshall . . . but YOU'RE not!"

[extragreen]

You can call them whatever you want---fans, non-fans, consumers, alumni, pond-scum, casual sports enthusiasts---but the fact remains:  If they quit coming and quit donating, you're better off figuring out a way to get them back rather than just say, "Well, they aren't REAL fans anyway."

A TERRIBLY short-sighted notion, that is.

Those people who aren't "REAL" fans are DESPERATELY needed, because they make our dollars (mine, yours AND theirs) go a LOT farther.  If we don't win them back and keep them on board, we're ALL just pi$$ing in the wind, singing "We are the sons of Marshall . . . buy YOU'RE not!"

Lydia, yours is the attitude I think would benefit Marshall the most. Take me for instance, in the last 30 years I've spent in the neighborhood of $15000 for me and my family going to Herd games. That's TOTALLY INCONSEQUENTIAL in the big picture. But multiply me by only 5000 seats left empty each game over the course of the last 30 years and it amounts to 75 MILLION dollars. It would seem advantageous if the university somehow promoted the games and program some way or another to fill those seats, even if some are at reduced cost.   

[guru shudu moonday]

Lydia, yours is the attitude I think would benefit Marshall the most. Take me for instance, in the last 30 years I've spent in the neighborhood of $15000 for me and my family going to Herd games. That's TOTALLY INCONSEQUENTIAL in the big picture. But multiply me by only 5000 seats left empty each game over the course of the last 30 years and it amounts to 75 MILLION dollars. It would seem advantageous if the university somehow promoted the games and program some way or another to fill those seats, even if some are at reduced cost.   

great post to the both of you.

[Collis P]

Ditto -  you have hit it straight on...............  was their, only time will tell..........................................................................

[banker]

Unless Im mistaken...Bowling Green had a coach in 2000 that wasnt winning near the end of his tenure.  So, they let him go and brought in a guy named Urban Meyer and he started winning with the old coaches players immediately.  I tend to think that whatever Snyder can do with our talented roster next year, a half way decent new coach could do better.

Okay fieldpass, just tell Hamrick who the next Urban Meyer is and I'm sure he'll hire him right away.  Of course once you have identified this magical candidate who will become the next great coach does that mean we will get to keep him for a whole two years like BUGS with Meyer so that two years after that we can be back to being a sub-.500 team?  Oh, and BTW in his two "great seasons" ay BUGS Meyer had no MAC title game appearances or bowl games and was 0-1 against the Herd.

Meyer is a great coach, but he was an innovator and caught people off guard with the spread before hardly anyone else was really running it.  That allowed him to win quickly and in the short term with inferior talent.  He was smart to keep moving up quickly before anyone could figure out how to stop it (kind of like Rich Rod at WVu) and get a job where he could get top tier talent.