Topic: Perception question

[banker]

From your perspective, is an 8-4 season with no P5 wins, and no appearance in the conference championship game, with a birth in a bowl against a 4th or 5th place team from another G5 league materially better than going 5-7?

To me they are essentially the same thing. Now the only time I would be not down on the 8-4 season is if it was a really up year for the conference where you had 2-3 teams in, or sniffing around, the top 25 and we competed well against those teams.

[whf]

Great question.  While watching virtually everyone else in G5 play on some kind of ESPN affiliated network this weekend, it hit me that C-USA will most likely never get into the top 25, or any other C-USA team with normal wins against G5 opponents (regardless of who they are).  The visibility of the other conferences is important to their perceived quality of play.  I watch a lot of every G5 conference football, C-USA is as good as anyone with the exception of UCF this year, as is MTSU and UAB.  For the top 10 in UCF, I"d go:

UCF
Boise
Cincy
Memphis
Marshall
Appy State
Fresno State
MTSU
USF
Utah State

[herd1990]

I try to judge with my eyes and not just stats or record.  And there is no one who can convince me that the brand and quality of football we have been playing in the John holliday era is what we are striving for.  Granted we had 2 good seasons in 2013 and 2014.  I think the Snyder teams, even with worse records, played better football than we do now.  I really don’t think it’s an accomplishment to win 8 games with the teams we play in our conference.  8 CUSA wins are equal to 3/4 wins in the sunbelt or AAC.  Our 8 wins is fools gold.  Our attendance speaks volumes too.  But I do see talent on the field.  Which leads me back to one glaring issue.  Leadership at the top.  Like it or not, John Holliday needs to go.  This will be the first year in a long while where I don’t make my Big Green contribution.  I can no longer endorse this regime with my money.  It’s a sad state of affairs for Marshall football.

[herd1990]

Great question.  While watching virtually everyone else in G5 play on some kind of ESPN affiliated network this weekend, it hit me that C-USA will most likely never get into the top 25, or any other C-USA team with normal wins against G5 opponents (regardless of who they are).  The visibility of the other conferences is important to their perceived quality of play.  I watch a lot of every G5 conference football, C-USA is as good as anyone with the exception of UCF this year, as is MTSU and UAB.  For the top 10 in UCF, I"d go:

UCF
Boise
Cincy
Memphis
Marshall
Appy State
Fresno State
MTSU
USF
Utah State

Respectfully, I disagree.  If the teams above were our schedule, we go 1-6 or 0-7.  We’ve proven we can only beat UTSA, Charlotte, ODU and other bottom feeders.  Name the last really good win we’ve had.  I’m at a loss to come up with one good, quality, worth bragging about win.

[CoachSkip]

Appy needs to be above MU.

[herdorbust]

I dont see anyone on your list we could beat. Maybe mtsu occasionally but that is all i see.

[svherd]

I have watched Fresno and Utah St. both would pound us. Sadly.

[s1uggo]

From your perspective, is an 8-4 season with no P5 wins, and no appearance in the conference championship game, with a birth in a bowl against a 4th or 5th place team from another G5 league materially better than going 5-7?

To me they are essentially the same thing. Now the only time I would be not down on the 8-4 season is if it was a really up year for the conference where you had 2-3 teams in, or sniffing around, the top 25 and we competed well against those teams.

Duh let me think about that.  Is 5-7 the same as 8-4??? Jeez Bevis it would seem 8-4 is much better?? But maybe we just needed a reason to rag on Doc

[forphase1]

From your perspective, is an 8-4 season with no P5 wins, and no appearance in the conference championship game, with a birth in a bowl against a 4th or 5th place team from another G5 league materially better than going 5-7?

To me they are essentially the same thing. Now the only time I would be not down on the 8-4 season is if it was a really up year for the conference where you had 2-3 teams in, or sniffing around, the top 25 and we competed well against those teams.

I agree.  8-4 and a no name bowl, no big wins, out of conference running in early November, no excitement around the program....well, it really isn't much better than going 5-7.  Sure, if I split hairs I'm a bit happier to not be a losing record team, but I really don't know I'd be more upset if we were sitting at 5-7 than I am with us being 8-4, but looking so bad while going 8-4 against the teams we did.  Sad what this program has become.

[HerdFan62]

What a stupid question.  Are you not so smart?

[banker]

What a stupid question.  Are you not so smart?

Well, compared to your well written, well thought out response, maybe I do look a little dumb. I can tell from the tone of your response that this season made you very happy.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

From your perspective, is an 8-4 season with no P5 wins, and no appearance in the conference championship game, with a birth in a bowl against a 4th or 5th place team from another G5 league materially better than going 5-7?

To me they are essentially the same thing. Now the only time I would be not down on the 8-4 season is if it was a really up year for the conference where you had 2-3 teams in, or sniffing around, the top 25 and we competed well against those teams.

Totally agree with you.

Duh let me think about that.  Is 5-7 the same as 8-4??? Jeez Bevis it would seem 8-4 is much better?? But maybe we just needed a reason to rag on Doc

By your mindless logic, Spring Valley then is better than the Browns. Because let's not consider the quality of the competition right? LOL

What a stupid question.  Are you not so smart?

I see John's wife finally got an account. Is there room in the bed for you, Greg H, and whf? Just wondering how that works?

[coalherd]

Hey guys, the real question is how MH perceives it!!  8-4 currently.  And if John Holliday can "coach up" his team in the next couple of weeks, manage to eek out a win over a 5th or 6th place AAC, MAC or Sunbelt team in the Rid-X Septic System Cleaner Bowl, the Herd would be 9-4, and Doc's unblemished bowl record intact.  To Hammy, that would be "marked" improvement over 2017's final 8-5 record and "great" strides forward!!  Heck, ole Mike might even contemplate a "slight" upward adjustment in ticket prices at the Joan for 2019!!

[elginherd]

Back to Banker's OP...

The only positive 'perception' the Herd would've received is if they would've beat NCSU and/or VT. If that happened and those 2 wins would be part of the 8-4, then yeah there's some good feelings there.

Here's the real problem, IMO:

I see a whole lot of people wearing Marshall swag attire when I go to the Rt 60 Walmart, the 5th & 7th ave Krogers & the Aldi's on Adams ave. But I bet if you stop and ask them who is the CUSA conference FB champ, the vast majority of them wouldn't know and many wouldn't even know that the Herd is in the CUSA.

I really don't think that we are really all that perceived, positively or negatively.

[gochneaur645]

We would easily go 0-9 against the teams on that list.

Our team is an absolute joke with this head coach, and nothing is going to change until he's gone. We had MTSU here and got murdered.