Topic: So, do we still want to get rid of Doc?

[svherd]

Doc won't leave until Mike leaves/retires. If he can keep us at the current level, I am more than good with that.

[forphase1]

Yes, I still want him gone.  One good year, even as good as this one is looking like it will end up, does not do enough to erase all the poor decisions, both on the field and off (player personal choices, recruiting, etc) that I've witnessed over the past 10 years or so.  My ideal world is that we go undefeated, and he rides off into the sunset with a great final year.  Realistically speaking I think he's going to get a new contract, and I don't think that's a very good thing.  I hope I'm wrong, both on him getting an extension and on it turning out badly if it does happen. 

[longtimeherdfan]

Believe me, MU's financial situation may be the biggest factor in determining the next MU head coach.  Falling or at least stagnant enrollment prior to the COVID outbreak/crisis means not a lot of $$$$ just laying around Old Main and elsewhere on campus.

MU is in the middle of trying to complete ambitious fund raising campaigns again in the middle of the COVID pandemic:  the Herd Rises and the Marshall Rises fund raisers.  No discretionary dollars around, that I can foresee, to go out and hire a new Head Coach who no doubt will ask for a more lucrative deal overall than Doc has.  Don't imagine Doc would require a precipitous jump in pay to stick around for another season or two.  Ideally, COVID will be "under control" and vaccines for the virus will be both plentiful and available for nearly the whole country's population by the time the 2021 season rolls around.  Prospects of another great season in 2021 with FULL CAPACITY allowed at the JOAN, and perhaps also at the CAM, should bring a boost in MU's financial/$$$$ picture overall athletically speaking.

Are any FBS schools getting close to budget decisions that could force them to the FCS level? If so, could MU be one of those? It's not like the MU athletic budget was all that flush before the pandemic.

[ThunderValley]

I think this is the answer..NO ONE HAS TRIED TO GET JOHN AWAY FROM MARSHALL..this says it all about what other teams think of him

[mckayt]

That’s some strong optimism.

No $h1t.  WTF?

[wasbarryb]

Anyone who wants to keep Doc is simply unable to learn from the past.

He's under performed too many years and too many times to keep.

[Buffalo Bop]

https://twitter.com/GrantTraylor/status/1328828234113421312?s=20

[herd2win]

Maybe the silliest thread of all time...try getting a coach with limited budget by firing a coach that went undefeated...good luck

[DC01HERD]

Maybe the silliest thread of all time...try getting a coach with limited budget by firing a coach that went undefeated...good luck

Cramsey or Lambert can win this conference with Wells as the QB. Plus, Pruett shouldn't have his all-time wins record eclipsed by a WVU carpetbagger. Some schools would have fired Holliday after 2012 and most certainly after 2016.

[herd2win]

Cramsey or Lambert can win this conference with Wells as the QB. Plus, Pruett shouldn't have his all-time wins record eclipsed by a WVU carpetbagger. Some schools would have fired Holliday after 2012 and most certainly after 2016.

Who hired Cramsey and Lambert....

[Buffalo Bop]

Who hired Cramsey and Lambert....

And who recruited Wells?

[herdorbust]

Maybe the silliest thread of all time...try getting a coach with limited budget by firing a coach that went undefeated...good luck

The only team that even had a chance to beat us was Appy and they aren’t anything special. The rest of our schedule is pure trash.

[mr_ash_1995]

Maybe the silliest thread of all time...try getting a coach with limited budget by firing a coach that went undefeated...good luck

And yet the thread is already on page 3. Therefore, the thread has some merit.  Doc will always be a focus of discussion (some think he is better than Pruett / Donnan, while some think he is Marshall's Nick Saban).

As far as the next hire, I would tell the applicant "Marshall hires coaches that  is required to win 1 Championship in 10 years in an "easy" conference.  Plus, Marshall doesn't fire you after a horrible year (like some schools do...see 2016).  Expectations are to finish 2nd in your division and make bowls games (which ALL new hires would understand).  Football is #1 at Marshall (see budget and facilities).  The AD will rarely make you play money games." 

Oh there would be some "quality" folks knocking on your door who want to use Marshall as a stepping stone.  Doc is mediocre.  Therefore, the next hire could be better or worse.  He is the "Marvin Lewis" of  college football. 

[Big City]

Split this one off. The rest is on the smack board for those that want to continue the smack, off topic, political discussion.

[Big City]

No $h1t.  WTF?

And to clarify on my post ‘a lot can happen’

At this point I’m not ready to say cut doc loose or not. He could win out and do some great things. The season could be called and ended Monday. We don’t know. I do like what I’ve seen from him this season. Something is different and it’s not just winning. I just wont make a decision without the complete story. We know what we have from the past but let’s see how this season plays out.

[Gaylen]

Let Doc coach until he no longer coaches then hire either a guy named Pennington or Leftwich.
This time hire a Marshall man to coach Marshall.

[Johnnyherd]

I thought the rule with QBs and Head Coaches was all the blame or all the fame?  Doc just gets the blame, I guess. 

He built this team!  He hired these coaches.  He’s not winning with other coaches players?  He built this defense.  Which is one of the top 5 best defensive units in the history of Marshall Football, IMO.

You cannot give this team respect for what it is doing without giving Doc the same respect. 

The fact that anyone google search and find this thread and read it, is very embarrassing, honestly.  I hope our players and recruits don’t read this.

[Herdmeister]

Let Doc coach until he no longer coaches then hire either a guy named Pennington or Leftwich.
This time hire a Marshall man to coach Marshall.

Chad has said repeatedly that he wants to coach HS. He could of course change his mind. I see no possible way that Byron would want to take a huge step back in a number of ways to coach at a G5 moderate paying school. Within the next couple of years he will be in a multi million dollar NFL head coaching job. In fact I feel certain that he is making double or triple as an OC of what Doc is getting here

[Buffalo Bop]

https://twitter.com/TheHerdAD/status/1329136644419629060?s=20

This says it all.

[NewfieHerdFan]

https://twitter.com/TheHerdAD/status/1329136644419629060?s=20

This says it all.

I agree. I feel all of this will get Doc an extension. For how many years, though, is the question.

[marshallmark]

I placed this on the previous thread, but it got lost in the shuffle:

Let me say this:  I believe that Marshall has underperformed during Doc's tenure, but just by a bit.  I'm not sure where any of us get the impression that Marshall should be winning the East every year under any circumstances.  For instance:

1.  For those that think MU's resources should allow it to be competitive every year in C-USA, take a look at MU's athletic budget.  Its mid-range in C-USA (and would be, by far, the lowest in any 'upgrade' to the AAC). We don't have a large student body to subsidize the athletic budget (unlike FAU or FIU that only have to put a $10 surcharge on their students to raise 1/2 million).  The Joan is a mediocre facility, and there are several in C-USA better than what we have - unlike 1-AA or MAC days when it was by far the best.
2.  For those that think our talent exceeds our peers, I'd partially agree with that, but that's directly attributable to Doc's recruiting prowess.  FAU and UAB have similar talent, FIU should, Southern Miss/No Texas/Middle Tenn/WKU have in the past and likely will again.  What makes us so special that you think we should have the best talent year after year?  History shows us that its all cyclical, AND success at the D1 level is largely about the QBs that you develop - Cato was a jewel, IG not so much.  Looks like we have a potential great one now, but that's not assured from year to year.
3.  For those that think our tradition should allow us to win every single year - do you think 18 year old kids care about Chad/Byron/Chris Parker/Doug Chapman?  Of course not - they MAY remember Randy, but that's likely only b/c of the "Mossed" segment on ESPN.  Once they get here, I think they can be immersed in what MU football means, but its not going to GET them here unless they're local and we all know how limited that pool is.
4.  Do you think another coach would necessarily pull Marshall to new heights?  Tell that to ECU, Southern Miss, WKU, and Rice, let alone WVU, South Carolina, Penn State, etc.

I bleed green as much or more than anyone on here.  I literally grew up on campus, and watched MU football from 1966 on.  I don't, however, see the program through the rose colored glasses that a lot of you do, and I firmly believe that we should be thanking our lucky stars that we have program stability and the successes we've had under Doc.

[The E-Man]

I bleed green as much or more than anyone on here.  I literally grew up on campus, and watched MU football from 1966 on.  I don't, however, see the program through the rose colored glasses that a lot of you do, and I firmly believe that we should be thanking our lucky stars that we have program stability and the successes we've had under Doc.

So are we to just forget about the "miserable years" under Doc's leadership? How long has it been since we competed and won a league championship 6 years? Is this going to be the norm for Herd football? I strongly disagree with you about being able to compete in the worse FBS division. Doc should have owned this league and we should have had more than (one championship in his 11 years here). I'm enjoying this ride, but I haven't, and I won't forget about the miserable years we have had with Doc as head coach. BTW, we have had for more "heartache and disappointments, than successes with Doc as head coach.

[marshallmark]

So are we to just forget about the "miserable years" under Doc's leadership? How long has it been since we competed and won a league championship 6 years? Is this going to be the norm for Herd football? I strongly disagree with you about being able to compete in the worse FBS division. Doc should have owned this league and we should have had more than (one championship in his 11 years here). I'm enjoying this ride, but I haven't, and I won't forget about the miserable years we have had with Doc as head coach. BTW, we have had for more "heartache and disappointments, than successes with Doc as head coach.

I get that E.  I really do.  I just don't see that we're so far ahead of the other C-USA teams that also have a commitment in $ and support that we do - Southern Miss fans must be apoplectic with how that program has cratered.   I'm just glad we haven't gone there.

[The E-Man]

I get that E.  I really do.  I just don't see that we're so far ahead of the other C-USA teams that also have a commitment in $ and support that we do - Southern Miss fans must be apoplectic with how that program has cratered.   I'm just glad we haven't gone there.

I'm afraid Hamrick will sign Doc to a long contract extension and that's so unfair to Herd fans. This was supposed to have been Doc last year, but now that he's ranked and winning it makes it difficult to make a change. As I've said, I wouldn't have a problem with a year to year contract, but nothing more...

[MicDrass1]

Year extension.  But beat a good team next year and CUSA doesn't count in the beat a good team discussion.  Navigating through this year is very difficult for a coaching staff.  Worth not counting this year in the evaluation process.  Next year is the big test.  If Holliday puts a good next year in the books then extend 2-3 years.  But must beat a good team outside of CUSA.  We don't do that and it's frustrating besides the lack of titles.
1 championship in 10/11 years is not good.  No matter the sport unless it was the worst team takeover and the team has shown progress over the 10 year span.  Snyder went 7-6 in old cusa.  That would be undefeated right now with this schedule.  No CUSA team would stop Ahmad Bradshaw I can tell you that.