Topic: Former recruits Bobby Shannon and Demetrius Young

[Garbanjo]

My problem with releasing the kids from their LOI's when it was done is that it should have been the call of the new coach. Now one could argue that DJ was going to be the new coach all along and that Marcum made the decision to release with the knowledge and approval of DJ. Of course that would indicate that the hiring process was a sham.

The decision right, wrong, or indifferent was the coaches call. IMO. But I'm not a athletic department professional. Maybe the logic was to give the new guy a clean slate. Make is so he wouldn't have to be the bad guy and run guys off. If that's so, the one would assume as you have pointed out above, that the kids were not CUSA material or not willing to come here anyway. Were that the case, why the desire to keep Jirsa

You nailed it.

[_sturt_]

Photo and Garbanjo, I'll buy that brand of rationale.

It represents a difference of opinion between reasonable people.

However, that was NOT the nature and tone of the discourse previously from other posters who know who they are...

Rather, the clearly predominant assertion was "Kayo is not so smart, he doesn't know what he's doing (, etc., etc.)"

They are the targets of my call-out, obviously. At least where this issue is/was concerned, they have been shown to be the real idiots.

Having said that, I would still argue with the brand of rationale... one either takes a student-athlete-first perspective to the situation or you take a university-first perspective.

At the risk of stating the obvious, if you do the former, you act immediately in the interest of the student-athlete. In this case, that means, you evaluate the situation and take action accordingly.

If you take the latter, you might even choose to not let them out of their LOI period... or, you do as you've suggested... you make the student-athlete wait a few weeks until you've hired a new coach.

Here's an aspect that really should change your mind about this whole thing: Pray tell, what if the eventually-hired coach doesn't really want a player? What then?

Then, you've not only forced the player to wait a few weeks, but if that becomes the situation, you've complicated the player's life in a more substantial way since schools that might have recruited them have committed to offering to other players (... sure, they could hold Marshall to the LOI, but how is that a good idea if they're not really wanted?).

Only in the instance of having a player who, clearly and certainly, a new coach will want to have would I personally, were I the AD, choose to delay--yes, I am a little selfish if, say, a Patrick Patterson or OJ Mayo or Bill Walker were involved.

But even in that case, if the player himself said, "Look, I want out, and I don't care who the new coach is, cause I've got an offer to play at an SEC school that's more appealing to me than playing for any new coach you'd bring in..." I say, I'd have to let him go.

(Implication: Change that to Big 10, and refer to Pringle, Stanley.)

No, I just can't agree with the University-first perspective. If you don't put the student first (assuming that the student has done nothing wrong themselves), your school deserves the bad rep they'll have earned.

If that's so, the one would assume as you have pointed out above, that the kids were not CUSA material or not willing to come here anyway. Were that the case, why the desire to keep Jirsa.

Kayo doesn't always make the right call... and maybe he doesn't even hardly ever make the right call.

On this one, though, he made the right call.

[Photo by]

...Kayo doesn't always make the right call... and maybe he doesn't even hardly ever make the right call.

On this, he made the right call.

Actually it doesn't matter at this point whether it was right or wrong. It's made and DJ and company, including the fans, are living with it.

Toothpaste out of the tube, a little be pregnant, done stepped in it, grabbed the $#!^) end of the stick.......

[_sturt_]

...Kayo doesn't always make the right call... and maybe he doesn't even hardly ever make the right call.

On this, he made the right call.

Actually it doesn't matter at this point whether it was right or wrong. It's made and DJ and company, including the fans, are living with it.

Toothpaste out of the tube, a little be pregnant, done stepped in it, grabbed the $#!^) end of the stick.......

Photo by, I have nothing but good feelings toward you, but you're acting like the spouse who had an affair and just wants their partner to get over it...

No.

There's two things that "aren't over" just because this particular issue is done with...

First, its the incessant "Kayo is stupid" chorus that needs to take their lumps, and I'm obviously in front of line to provide that... if only so that, when Kayo needs to take his lumps in the future, there's some level-headed fans in the crowd who can point that out credibly.

Second, though, and just as importantly is that we agree on where priorities should lie...

Consider this: very often, a player will give up his scholarship and transfer to a smaller school. What do we say? As a group, we most often will say "We're sorry it didn't work out for you here at Marshall, and we wish you the best at your next stop."

That's a student-athlete-first perspective. And that's a good thing.

It should apply always in any instance where the kid has done nothing wrong.

Always.

Even, I say, even if a particular sports program is down, and as fans we're desperate for an up-turn. We shouldn't be so desperate that we made decisions that disadvantage the kid.

It applies here.

And, really, that's the principle regardless of whether Penn State wanted Pringle or if Pringle indicated he wanted out... regardless of whether Shannon could make the grades... regardless of whether Young ended up at Stony Brook.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the player can always say "we signed an agreement, and I expect Marshall to live up to that agreement"... Pringle (and/or his dad) could have said that... or he could have kept his mind open until Marshall did hire DJ.

Releasing players from their LOI gives them the choice to jump back into the recruiting pool... and the earlier Kayo allowed them to do that, the better, if one subscribes to student-athlete-first.

Can we agree on that priority? Just because this issue is past tense doesn't mean that the principles illuminated by the situation (if not the exact situation) won't again re-surface.

[Photo by]

I respectfully disagree.

I think it should have been DJ's call.

Two weeks wouldn't have made a significant difference.

A prompt firing and hiring process would have made the entire subject moot.

We should have had this conversation last year.

My guess is there are things going on where we don't have all the information.

Look, the day to day operation of the AD, Kayo does and incredible job. Talk to any coach. They get what they need in a timely manner. They receive incredible support. This is true of the Olympic sports as well as the money sports.

DJ may not have wanted to make this decision. Maybe I'm sticking up for DJ when he doesn't need it.

Student athletes need to make informed decisions. These guys had an emotional reaction and wanted to leave. Chris Lofton wanted to leave at Tennessee when Buzz Peterson was fired and Bruce Pearl was hired. Last year he was All SEC and led the league in scoring. Pearl had the chance to make that decision DJ didn't. LOI's are contracts between the kids and the school. When a change is made the new guy needs to make that evaluation.

[marshallsoccer]

I respectfully disagree.

I think it should have been DJ's call.

Two weeks wouldn't have made a significant difference.

A prompt firing and hiring process would have made the entire subject moot.

We should have had this conversation last year.

My guess is there are things going on where we don't have all the information.

Look, the day to day operation of the AD, Kayo does and incredible job. Talk to any coach. They get what they need in a timely manner. They receive incredible support. This is true of the Olympic sports as well as the money sports.

DJ may not have wanted to make this decision. Maybe I'm sticking up for DJ when he doesn't need it.

Student athletes need to make informed decisions. These guys had an emotional reaction and wanted to leave. Chris Lofton wanted to leave at Tennessee when Buzz Peterson was fired and Bruce Pearl was hired. Last year he was All SEC and led the league in scoring. Pearl had the chance to make that decision DJ didn't. LOI's are contracts between the kids and the school. When a change is made the new guy needs to make that evaluation.

It was almost 4 weeks from Ron being let go to Donnie being hired. The players were released from their LOI almost immediately after Ron was let go. It really would've been unfair for us to keep the kids in their LOI if they wanted out. Signing day started, again, when we hired DJ, had we kept them they would not have been able to look at other schools, etc, then would've been up against the wall to even get a scholarship at another school.

[P'villeHERDfan]

I didn't like it at the time , especially Pringle , but I believe its worked out for the best with the Gonzaga kid , I'm sure hes a better player.

[Photo by]

I didn't like it at the time , especially Pringle , but I believe its worked out for the best with the Gonzaga kid , I'm sure hes a better player.

It certainly seems that way...makes me think everyone that said it was DJ's job all along was correct.

[yogiherd]

I agree with Photo that DJ should have had the opportunity to make the call on the players release. DJ never had the chance to decide if the players would fit into his system or not, Kayo jumped the gun and it should have been DJ's call unless Kayo plans on coaching the bball team.

Of all the coaching changes this past year in bball, Kayo was the only AD that released LOI's before the players met the new coach. I find it hard to believe all of those other ADs were wrong on their decision to let the new coach make the call on his team! And before someone says well it was because RJ was fired on March 12 and DJ wasn't hired until April 7; the blame falls on Kayo's shoulders. Kayo decided to wait til the NCAA tourney was over with before hiring a coach( atleast that's what the media reported with Kayo's quotes), but MU pays him and he should have hired one on MU's time schedule.

I know Billy the Kid said he appreciated Kayo waiting til FLorida finished their run, but Kayo should put MU first and some of the things he says and does it appears he has MU on the second burner instead of on the first burner.

[_sturt_]

Of all the coaching changes this past year in bball, Kayo was the only AD that released LOI's before the players met the new coach.

Can't let this one fly w/o asking... Source???

That's a factoid that wouldn't be dug up with just a leisurely 5 minute visit to ESPN.com.

I find it hard to believe all of those other ADs were wrong on their decision to let the new coach make the call on his team!

First, I just find it hard to believe that all of those other ADs did what you say they did (... assuming, of course, that we're talking exclusively about programs that didn't make a change within 24-48 hours of the separation from the former coach).

But, for the sake of debate, let's assume that the assertion is correct.

The logic that follows is that, we should measure this by the measuring stick of what others do, and not trouble ourselves with the actual rightness/wrongness of putting student-athletes in the precarious position of not knowing whether MU would live up to their agreement or not, and simultaneously, unable to field offers from other programs...

Sorry... you guys are my brothers, but that's just a completely selfish position to take.

[_sturt_]

Okay, I know I'm blatantly bumping here, but I just want to give ONE MORE (I promise, Mr. Moderator) opportunity, in particular to DAHERDFAN (assuming he didn't get banned at some point while I wasn't looking) and Flat Tire but in general to anyone else who pecked out umpteen posts since Kayo's infamous LOI release declaring the man to be delirious or worse...

Anyone else like to come clean and confess the error of your ways?

(Not holding breath.)