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The place to talk Marshall University sports! => HerdFans => Topic started by: Shepherdstown5150 on April 17, 2005, 10:25:37 AM
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...who attended WVU's spring game yesterday. This guy has connections at WVU and Marshall and he knows that I am an MU grad, so we talk college football. He said he heard that WVU if offering a 3-1 deal to play MU in football and to folow-up with another 2-1 deal with games in Hungtington in 2007 and 2010, So I started asking a series of questions and this was his anwers:
I ask, why in the world would MU agree to this? He was told that MU's cash flow is in really, really bad shape. He said it is much worse then most people realize.
I ask, why can't MU just sign better deals with other schools? He said it is all about travel expense. He was told that MU wants to build relationships with schools close to Huntington so the team can just bus to games and have very low travel costs. He said a game in Florida my pay $400,000 to $500,000 and it may cost $100,000 to $150,000 in travel costs. He said games with VT, Pitt, Louisville, Cinn, and WVU provide very low travel costs. Also with C-USU games so far away that close OOC games helps the fans as well.
I ask, was Manchin putting the pressure on both schools? He said yes! Pressure on MU to back off the 1 for 1 and pressue on WVU to come to Huntington. He said the AD at WVU and Manchin are LONG time friends.
I ask, I have always heard that the AD at WVU was a pretty nice guy and was wondering why he was sticking it to MU with the 3-1 deal? He said, ALOT of people are still pissed that someone backed out of a 4-0 deal that cost WVU big bucks. He was told no contract was signed, but the WVU AD and Lee Moon had a verbal agreement. WVU spent big money to get out of playing someone else and said the AD is stil upset over this issue.
Bottom Line- He was told MU's financial troubles is forcing MU to agree to certain things.
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I would have to agree with the financial problems. Obviously since we have been wanting new turf for a couple years now and still haven't got it and most high schools and colleges already do. Pathetic. Thanks a lot Angel!! :-? Angel really screwed the athletic dept. big time!!
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There is truth in there somewhere. But I doubt it is exactly what your friend says.
As for being in a cash problem...................every non bcs school seems to be having cash flow problems these days.
And yes, there was a verbal agreement. But it was changed when Moon left.
My take.................WVU lost out on potential revenue and is still wanting to make it up.
That's why MU will agree to a 2for1 at first then it will be a 1fo1 there after.
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There are cash flow issues on both sides. wvu is hurting too. It is a two way street. Plus, with the demise of the Big East in football, who knows what their future holds financially. The 3 for 1 is to get back at MU for the alleged deal. However, if they are not willing to negotiate in good faith screw them.
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Kayo's VT series was probably the best thing he could have done and is real genius because it took three games that WVU could sell out off the table...most of the other good regional matchups that would create revenue and interest are already in their conference. I think when the see how many Cindy and SF bring compared to how many VT and Miami used to bring...well, they will be looking for ways to make up revenue. If we have to wait another year or two to work out this schedule, it's cool...in fact it is probably to our best advantage. We need to ride the CUSA bump for a couple of years then we can take the WVU bump...if we have a deal that works for us.
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We're paying a 1 game anty to get the deal.
It's a 2 for 1 with a free, token sellout for wvu.
Another "deal" made by our wvu alum pres.
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He said he heard that WVU if offering a 3-1 deal to play MU in football and to folow-up with another 2-1 deal
We don't need that series that bad. There are other programs out there that will give better deals. 5-2 is unacceptable. We are no longer I-AA and in the Southern Conf.
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Our cash flow is in real bad shape and according to some on here we don't have money for a new turf or an IPF. We need money to keep building our program for competing in C-USA and paying the travel expense bill that goes with our move. We can get other teams to give us a 5-2 but we will have travel costs to get with those teams and we need to get the biggest bang for our buck and that is VT, WVU, Pitt, Louisville, and Cinn.
Not sure we have a choice! Maybe you play a 3-1 then come back to the table when that is played.
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Bad as I hate to admit this....................
Marshall needs WVU and WVU needs Marshall.
This will tremendously help both schools financially.
I say MU honors the broken verbal contract and then alternate home sites there after.
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Bad as I hate to admit this....................
Marshall needs WVU and WVU needs Marshall.
This will tremendously help both schools financially.
I say MU honors the broken verbal contract and then alternate home sites there after.
But if WVU wants a 2-1 there afterwads its not woth it. The sisters of the North aren't that Special.
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But if WVU wants a 2-1 there afterwads its not woth it. The sisters of the North aren't that Special.
From my understanding, the argument has always been about the broken verbal contract of MU owing WVU two more games in Morgantown.
I think both sides have agreed to settle on MU going to Morgantown 2006 and 2007, then 2008 in Huntington and alternating sites there after.
It will be a home and home series, period. It's just the matter of working out this broken verbal agreement problem and what both sides can settle on.
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From my understanding, the argument has always been about the broken verbal contract of MU owing WVU two more games in Morgantown.
I think both sides have agreed to settle on MU going to Morgantown 2006 and 2007, then 2008 in Huntington and alternating sites there after.
It will be a home and home series, period. It's just the matter of working out this broken verbal agreement problem and what both sides can settle on.
But DJ if WVU wants a 2-1 there after the series isn't worth it. We aren't a Southern Conference Team and don't need to give up a 5-2.
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From my understanding, the argument has always been about the broken verbal contract of MU owing WVU two more games in Morgantown.
I think both sides have agreed to settle on MU going to Morgantown 2006 and 2007, then 2008 in Huntington and alternating sites there after.
It will be a home and home series, period. It's just the matter of working out this broken verbal agreement problem and what both sides can settle on.
But DJ if WVU wants a 2-1 there after the series isn't worth it. We aren't a Southern Conference Team and don't need to give up a 5-2.
I agree with you. We don't need that kind of deal. We gave Tennessee a 2-1. We gave Miami a 2-1. If, for some unknown reason, WVU feels like they are better than either of those two teams (that have multiple National Championships), then they can go find a patsy somewhere else. I'll take a 2-1 with home and home after that. NO ongoing 2-1 deals and absolutely no 3-1.
And if the Governor is pushing for this 3-1, it better be because he's planning on alocating several millions of dollars to Marshall to expand the stadium to over 50K and some nice luxury boxes.
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And if the Governor is pushing for this 3-1, it better be because he's planning on alocating several millions of dollars to Marshall to expand the stadium to over 50K and some nice luxury boxes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/HerdZoned/Smiley/laugh2.gif)
I don't see that happening. If we want our Stadium built we will have to do it ourself unlike WVU when they got their stadium built through the state.
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...because we know both sides need money?
Response: WVU is divided on playing MU at all and it is because the Big East is adding a 9th football only member and they are talking to Penn State, VT, UVA, Tenn, and Notre Dame about games. This list of teams solves a SOS problem that all Big East schools have. Fitting in new schools even with at 12th game is going to be difficult.
Next question: Is Manching forcing a 3-1 deal? No, just saying get something done.
Again, don't shoot me for bringing this stuff to the board, but it just makes for interesting conversation. Not that I like what I hear, but interesting to say the least. Heck, football season is over and I need something to talk with my buddies about.
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Again, don't shoot me for bringing this stuff to the board.
No 1 sooting you, but if thats what WVU wants, Marcum or whoever the AD is better turn it down. As BGT said there are better deals out there and plus we got deals done better with VA TECH, Tenn and Miami. WVU isn't that special.
3-1 + 2-1 = 5-2 not acceptable, maybe it was when we were I-AA and in the Southern Conferece.
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Kayo's VT series was probably the best thing he could have done and is real genius because it took three games that WVU could sell out off the table...most of the other good regional matchups that would create revenue and interest are already in their conference. I think when the see how many Cindy and SF bring compared to how many VT and Miami used to bring...well, they will be looking for ways to make up revenue. If we have to wait another year or two to work out this schedule, it's cool...in fact it is probably to our best advantage. We need to ride the CUSA bump for a couple of years then we can take the WVU bump... if we have a deal that works for us.
As of today the Marshall Va. Teck will be a four for one and Marshall fans think WVU should play Marshall one for one or at most a two for one
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3-1 + 2-1 = 5-2 not acceptable, maybe it was when we were I-AA and in the Southern Conferece.
I agree, never allow a deal like that. But I think it will be a 2for1 at first then home and home after that.
So............2-1 then 1-1,1-1,1-1,1-1,1-1....etc.
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Response: WVU is divided on playing MU at all and it is because the Big East is adding a 9th football only member
IF, and a big if, The Big East is considering adding another team, would it not make sense to make the current teams happy? Why piss off the current teams?
Folks plain and simple, both schools need this game, and more importantly the State needs this game. Why not show we can be grown ups and take a (as much as I hate to say it) 3-1 deal and lets just get the series started!
Besides something else for you guys to consider. If I am not mistaken the WVU vs East Carolina series is a revolving 2-1 series, and not a 1-1.
We need to get current Big East teams on our side and not against us!
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And if the Governor is pushing for this 3-1, it better be because he's planning on alocating several millions of dollars to Marshall to expand the stadium to over 50K and some nice luxury boxes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/HerdZoned/Smiley/laugh2.gif)
I don't see that happening. If we want our Stadium built we will have to do it ourself unlike WVU when they got their stadium built through the state.
MY point exactly. I KNOW he's not going to do that and that is absolutely the only feasible explanation of why Marshall would even entertain the idea of a 3-1 followed by a 2-1.
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I ain't no big fan of the who, but to be fair, they had a surcharge on their ticket prices for years to help retire the debt left over from building their stadium. I know.... I paid it for guest tickets when I went to school there. :-?
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Kayo's VT series was probably the best thing he could have done and is real genius because it took three games that WVU could sell out off the table...most of the other good regional matchups that would create revenue and interest are already in their conference. I think when the see how many Cindy and SF bring compared to how many VT and Miami used to bring...well, they will be looking for ways to make up revenue. If we have to wait another year or two to work out this schedule, it's cool...in fact it is probably to our best advantage. We need to ride the CUSA bump for a couple of years then we can take the WVU bump... if we have a deal that works for us.
As of today the Marshall Va. Teck will be a four for one and Marshall fans think WVU should play Marshall one for one or at most a two for one
Wrong-o. Marshall's first contract was for a two game series with VPI; both games in Blacksburg. Then Marshall negotiated a COMPLETELY separate contract for a 2-1.
HUGE difference. The first one was signed when Marshall was still in 1-AA. The other one signed after years of paying dues in 1-A. WVU may be a MEMBER of a BCS conference. But until they actually PLAY in one, I don't see where they deserve any better consideration than teams that have not only played in BCS games, but have played for NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. VPI, Miami, Tennessee all have played for the big one. WVU can't even crack the other rotation bowls.
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One thing not mentioned.....Many MU fans claim that the other games agreed to following 97 were cancelled because the Qu-eers reverted back to insisting the future games would pay the Herd only what another MAC school would get(maybe because they were behind when the 4th qtr started and they had seen all they wanted of us) They tried to get us to take peanuts for the 97 contest but Illinois and others were offering twice as much so they had to sweeten the pot.
GO HERD!
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sheppy
blow that friend off, for he is a fool.
wvu will get an extra game or so, but they ain't getting a 3-1 followed by a 2-1.
first off, wvu sucks. they've never got a 3-1 from anyone, much less someone who will sell out their stadium plus some mini packs.
don't listen to foolish eerdiots, that's the best advice i can give you.
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I think MU has a little leverage over WVU on this one, even though the Gov is putting pressure on both to get it done.
WVU needs this sellout.
I think the only stumbling block now is......"how much to pay Marshall for visiting Morgantown. MU is not a MAC team anymore so WVU has no more excuses. Time to pay up.
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Kayo's VT series was probably the best thing he could have done and is real genius because it took three games that WVU could sell out off the table...most of the other good regional matchups that would create revenue and interest are already in their conference. I think when the see how many Cindy and SF bring compared to how many VT and Miami used to bring...well, they will be looking for ways to make up revenue. If we have to wait another year or two to work out this schedule, it's cool...in fact it is probably to our best advantage. We need to ride the CUSA bump for a couple of years then we can take the WVU bump... if we have a deal that works for us.
As of today the Marshall Va. Teck will be a four for one and Marshall fans think WVU should play Marshall one for one or at most a two for one
WVwho isn't even CLOSE to being as respectable as VPI. And you're wrong, it's two different contracts by two different MU AD's. The first was a 2 for none and the second is a 2 for 1. :shock:
We also have a TWO FOR ONE with the Miami Hurricanes! :o
How many National Championships has WVwho won? But hey, you've always got that "1 loss" undefeated season. 8-)
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But hey, you've always got that "1 loss" undefeated season. 8-)
Is that an oxymoron or an ambiguous analogy.
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But hey, you've always got that "1 loss" undefeated season. 8-)
Is that an oxymoron or an ambiguous analogy.
They show the infamous 11-1 Undefeated season on their score board every seaon! :x
http://www.dailymail.com/static/specialsections/lookingback/lb07091.htm
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We have a 4-1 with VT. We have a 3-1 with Tennessee.
The state cuts have hurt us much more percentage-wise than WVU. That has caused some Marshall folks to make some "easy" money decisions and now we are paying for them.
What's at stake?
Unfortunately for us, the Big East is.
It's no secret that Marshall aspires to be there and WVU is now one of the flagship programs in that conference.
It's called paying dues and it has nothing to do with who's better than whom. Marshall needs allies. Marshall needs money. Marshall needs regional contests to reduce travel costs.
WVU knows this and is binging down the hammer. Until we get on an even playing field, Marshall fans should be prepared to eat a little doddie. Welcome to the real world.
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I can agree with that Blade.
But how serious is this Big East expansion down the road?
Hell, in 5 years, the Big East could dissolve all together.
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I can agree with that Blade.
But how serious is this Big East expansion down the road?
Hell, in 5 years, the Big East could dissolve all together.
Nothing is carved in stone. You have to position yourself to suceed however. Regardless of what happens to the BE, we will always try to be affiliated with regional interests. It's good business. It's human nature.
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I too don't see any way this happens. western is a mid major. furthermore they need us alot more than we need them. I can see a possible 2 4 1 then home and home thereafter...but to put westerns couch burners in the same pot as tennessee is quite the mistake...they are a mid major with a perception problem...
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I too don't see any way this happens. western is a mid major. furthermore they need us alot more than we need them. I can see a possible 2 4 1 then home and home thereafter...but to put westerns couch burners in the same pot as tennessee is quite the mistake...they are a mid major with a perception problem...
You may be disappointed when all this comes down then.
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At this point, I really don't care where they play as long as the game is played.
Playing in Morgantown will still be like playing at home. I think the crowd would be 60-40 in favor of WVU.
Hell let's just get it done already. If the money is right, I say do it.
Can you imagine the meltdown at WVU when Marshall thrashes them on their home field.
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not disappointed if we decide a 3 4 1 with westerns couch burners. However as bigreenthunder pointed out, even VT is a 2 for 1 not a 4 for 1. Likewise KSU is a 2 4 1 not a 3 4 1, so why Blade would we agree to this?
Do you know something we need to understand better blade? Are you an
"insider"?
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think "building relationships"
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For what? Games with a mid major afraid to play us? I can't see it.
2 4 1 thats good enough to start with..we gave em a 1 for none already.
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not disappointed if we decide a 3 4 1 with westerns couch burners. However as bigreenthunder pointed out, even VT is a 2 for 1 not a 4 for 1. Likewise KSU is a 2 4 1 not a 3 4 1, so why Blade would we agree to this?
Playing games with the numbers doesn't resign the fact that we are going to VT 4 times and they are coming here once. KSU has always been a 2-1 and I didn't say otherwise. If you mean UT, that is a 1-0 and a 2-1 but again, we go there 3X for a 1-game return. Bottom line.
If it's number playing you wish, WVU would be a 1-0 for the games they felt were on the handshake agreement and then back-to-back 2-1's.
As a fan, I don't agree with this. However, as an AD, if riding my butt up to Morgantown 3 times to:
a) get a game in Huntington
b) mend fences with an in-state rival that could help us down the road
c) gain short road trips for our traveling fans
d) alleviate state funds by keeping 100% of the revenues in state
and e) to have a chance to gain additional state support and increase our local fanbase, I might consider the deal.
Florida State played @ Florida several years straight before UF considered going to Tallahassee.
Same thing with USM and Alabama.
Playing the game with the chance of beating them, regardless of where, should be Marshall's main focus IF they aspire to be in Eastern football somewhere down the road.
Do you know something we need to understand better blade? Are you an "insider"?
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and there were a few of them there. :o
Simple logic should explain it.
- Manchin wants the game whatever the deal.
- Marcum has made it one of his goals before he retires.
- WVU is always waaaay too proud of themselves and always overstates their worth.
That tells me that Marshall will bite the bullet to put them in their place once and forever.
This wouldn't happen with Pruett. I don't know if Snyder would agree either, but this deal would be a go otherwise.
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Here's a point of reference from Tennessee...A BCS School (SEC) and a CUSA school. In State rivalry. The little stadium (Memphis) seats about 60% of the bigger one. A difference of about 70 K butts in the seats. Although the Liberty Bowl isn't usually but about half full. Now UTK likes to play in Memphis because they have a lot of fans there, there is another factor.
Since 1968 UT Knoxville has played University of Memphis (previously Memphis State) 19 times. 10 in Knoxville 9 in Memphis.
The only reason it isn't 10 and 10 is because Calipari refuses to take the Tigers to Knoxville so the Vols are refusing to come to Memphis for football.
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Playing games with the numbers doesn't resign the fact that we are going to VT 4 times and they are coming here once. KSU has always been a 2-1 and I didn't say otherwise. If you mean UT, that is a 1-0 and a 2-1 but again, we go there 3X for a 1-game return. Bottom line.
Both are two separate contracts, negotiated independent of each other and years appart. When Marshall was still 1-AA, it agreed to go to UT once while they scheduled two road games at VPI. We have since been able to negotiate 2-1 deals with both schools after paying dues in the 1-A circuit. It has nothing to do with playing a numbers game. We have 2 separate contracts with UT and 2 separate contracts with Va Tech. But neither of them is for more than a 2-1.
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As someome said WVU knows we are going to need allies in the next round of conf shake ups and they know that our number one ally is going to have to be the sister of the North WVU. So they are trying to control the contract neg. here.
I agree that in 5 yrs our biggest ally will need to be WVU followed by Pitt, Louisville and Cincy. I think if we have that contingency then the rest falls in place. But back to my argument, WVU thinks they can play big brother right now and make us fall in line. They say jump, we say how hight, they say color we say what with.
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So, my question is WHY in the sam hill would we EVER give a bunch of couch burning hillbillys anything greater? I'd rather give OHIO STATE a 3 for 1 or Georgia a 3 for 1 or even North Carolina a 3 for 1 than western va...it doesnt make cents to me, when payouts at Ohio State would be greater than westerns AND the return date a much greater season ticket sell than western...we have PLENTY of mid-majors on the schedule now, why give western a 3 for 1 when the rest of em are home n home?
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Ohio State-They will never come to Huntington on a 3-1
GA-They may not come to Huntington but then again the travel costs will eat into our profits
UNC-Not a bad fit but will they bring fans to Huntington or will they even sch. us? BCS schools are not knocking down our doors to play.
The bar has kind of been set with the VT deal even if they were signed in seperate contracts
There is more to college athletics then signing a 3-1 deal. It is more about politics and building relationships.
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Playing games with the numbers doesn't resign the fact that we are going to VT 4 times and they are coming here once. KSU has always been a 2-1 and I didn't say otherwise. If you mean UT, that is a 1-0 and a 2-1 but again, we go there 3X for a 1-game return. Bottom line.
Both are two separate contracts, negotiated independent of each other and years appart. When Marshall was still 1-AA, it agreed to go to UT once while they scheduled two road games at VPI. We have since been able to negotiate 2-1 deals with both schools after paying dues in the 1-A circuit. It has nothing to do with playing a numbers game. We have 2 separate contracts with UT and 2 separate contracts with Va Tech. But neither of them is for more than a 2-1.
And WVU would be two separate contracts. One for our pentance and one to start the series. I really don't care when they are signed. The bottom line is that we are playing those games. We've done it before with less at stake.
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So, my question is WHY in the sam hill would we EVER give a bunch of couch burning hillbillys anything greater? I'd rather give OHIO STATE a 3 for 1 or Georgia a 3 for 1 or even North Carolina a 3 for 1 than western va...it doesnt make cents to me, when payouts at Ohio State would be greater than westerns AND the return date a much greater season ticket sell than western...we have PLENTY of mid-majors on the schedule now, why give western a 3 for 1 when the rest of em are home n home?
Ask yourself three questions:
1. What are our chances of gaining admittance to the Big 11, SEC or the ACC?
2. Can/will Georgia, Ohio State or UNC ADs help us gain admittance to a more prestigious conference?
3. Does Manchin have a say as to how much Georgia, OSU or UNC help us?
If you answer "not likely" to #1, find a school that meets #2 & 3.
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And WVU would be two separate contracts.
The differece Blade on VA Tech, its 2 separate contracts under 2 different ADs at 2 different times. The 1st contract was signed in 1995, 2 years before we got out of I-AA but knew we would be I-A before we played. We had yet to pay any dues in I-A, now is not the case and a 5-2 even if 2 separate contracts is unacceptable.
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And WVU would be two separate contracts.
The differece Blade on VA Tech, its 2 separate contracts under 2 different ADs at 2 different times. The 1st contract was signed in 1995, 2 years before we got out of I-AA but knew we would be I-A before we played. We had yet to pay any dues in I-A, now is not the case and a 5-2 even if 2 separate contracts is unacceptable.
Well, we'll see if the MU admin thinks it's unacceptable.
Don't get me wrong HZ. I think it stinks. I think that USPAM is taking advantage of our situation and shoving this contract right up our kazoo. They could be civil about this but it's what I've come to expect from them.
Unfortunately, I see a real possiblity that this contract could be accepted and I'm not so sure, given what's at stake, that it's unacceptable.
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Blade, as usual I think your right on the money. As to the original post. I would say there is a lot of truth to what the WVU supporter stated. Granted it is slanted toward WVU (both schools hurting financially). In any time of contract there are always some give and take between the negotiators ( that is if they know what they are doing). Because of previous dealings there is a lot of bad blood on both sides thus; Marcum and Pastilong have to be careful how they handle this. In WVU's case they feel their owed three home games. Marshall feels their entitled to a decent payout (not MAC like) and a home game. Therfore, a 5-2 make all the sense in the world ( not that I like it). WVU Admin can say Marshall is finally playing the three games it owes. Marshall Admin can say WVU is coming to our house plus we make some cash on the odd games. I also think (like blade) it help us in our future plans.
On another point, saying that the VT series is two separate contracts is playing semantics. Do you actually believe that their was no mention of the original agreement while negotiating the new 2-1?
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Don't get me wrong HZ. I think it stinks. I think that USPAM is taking advantage of our situation and shoving this contract right up our kazoo.
Read my post up at the top WVU knows that we are going to be needing their help in the next 5-7 yrs, so now they want to play power of Big Brother while they can.
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There is more to college athletics then signing a 3-1 deal. It is more about politics and building relationships.
How about honesty?
Honesty from your wvu friend who seemd to think that wvu had to pay big bucks to get out of a contract to play MU back in the 90's.
The team in question was Louisville who came to wvu asking to be released from their 3 game commitment with wvu. Louisville wanted out because of scheduling of their new league...CUSA. CUSA was formed in 95. wvu agreed to let them out of their commitment and then scheduled MU. So wvu paid no money to make room for Marshall.
The fact that your buddy lied to you about this would make me question his honesty in his other statements.
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Maybe it went to the teams that WVU had to get at a late date to go to Morgantown for 1-0 games?
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so my question is this...if western is giving it to us up the Kazoo now, why would western CHANGE course in the future? They blocked us before, they will block us again...besides I like the new CUSA. Mississippi is alot warmer than Ohio in November!
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I like the new CUSA. Mississippi is alot warmer than Ohio in November!
As much as Im gonna like CUSA GK, they will not lose the BCS and its all about money. Either you hate it, or you join it. And thats what Marshall is trying to position itself to do.
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Maybe it went to the teams that WVU had to get at a late date to go to Morgantown for 1-0 games?
I don't think that's the case. Idaho, Miami O and Kent State (I think those were the three) If they offered those three more than us then that proves the point that wvu was trying to short change us. If they paid them less than what we were to get paid then they have no complaint. Either way there is no money loss for wvu.
It's simply untrue that wvu lost money "big time" when we refused to sign on to the remaining games. However it's not stopped wvu fans from telling this lie in order to make their point.
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so my question is this...if western is giving it to us up the Kazoo now, why would western CHANGE course in the future?
We don't know how they'll act in the future. Sometimes you roll the dice hoping that it comes up seven.
They blocked us before, they will block us again...
Not so sure. I thought so the last time around until the minutes came out of BC about the expansion. We weren't positioned athletically, academically or facility-wise for the BE in my opinion.
besides I like the new CUSA. Mississippi is alot warmer than Ohio in November!
Now with that, my Herd Brother, I cannot disagree. I be lovin' the road trips this fall! :cool:
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IMHO it seems that both sides of the issue may have inflated views of their worth to the other. And it seems that both are infatuated with the concept of "fairness."
Is their such a thing as fair negotiations? In this case both parties are not equal and both are looking at achieving their individual goals and objectives which are not mutual.
This negotiation will sort out the wheat from the chaff or both parties will walk away and negotiate with those that come closer to achievement of like goals and objectives.
Finally, if life were fair then we all should be billionaires. Unfortunately, my bank account won't bear this out.
Cheers,
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Are you another WVU apologist? Ole Miss plays Memphis every year in a 1 for 1, a SEC school playing a CUSA school equally and fairly. They are only an hour away from each other and the alumni love it. Perhaps we should take a leson from them.
Play us here and we'll play you up north.
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In answer to your question NO.
Regarding your example => two different schools with obviously mutual interests.
WVU and MU negotiations will sort out the reality in a business sense and both will move in their own self-interest. It will either happen or it won't but if it does it will be the result of hard negotiations driven by each sides overall objectives NOT the pundits on bulletin boards.
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WVU fan,
My point is that they are 2 schools in 2 different conferneces, with Ole Miss having much more to lose to Memphis, than WVU has (in a much inferior conference than the SEC) has to lose by playing Marshall. Playing us will actually help your SOS, rather than playing Rutgers, South florida etc (which you have to anyway).
Let's play, minus the politics. Politics just screws things up anyway.
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Ole Miss has lost 2 in a row to Memphis, they lose this year and they will cancel the series. At least for awile anyway, until powers shift back to were Memphis is bad and Ole Miss is doing OK.
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Yep, your point was quite obvious without an expanded explaination.
You obviously don't understand my point. I said nothing of politics, could not care less. Both parties will either agree or disagree based upon solid business practices. Optimally, both sides will grow with an agreement. But in negotiations, frequently, there are winners and losers in the short- or long-term. The art may be to take a short-term loss for a long-term gain. I can only place my trust in the REAL deal makers vs. the opinions of the interested.
Frankly, I could not care less if we ever play. There are always other buyers in the marketplace.
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Frankly, I could not care less if we ever play. There are always other buyers in the marketplace
That's one thing we agree on.
I would like to see the game played for "state reasons" but I could care less if Marshall ever plays WVU because frankly, MU does not solely need WVU for survival. We have proven that we can manage just well on our own.
Obviously, WVU can manage well without Marshall.
IMO.......this is a case where little brother has finally grown up and can trade punches with big brother.
Big brother used to have his own club of bigger and better members. Now his club has lost some of those big/better members and at the same time, little brother has become good enough to join big brother's club.
Now comes the time for big brother to swallow his pride and accept little brother and acknowledge his growth and accomplishments.
So big brother throws out a bone to little brother.
Accepting that bone means the start of a new brotherhood between the brothers.
But..............little brother wants to know what it will cost him if he accepts that bone. Because, even though little brother and big brother are now grown men, little brother will always know how arrogant and elitist big brother can be when it comes to doing business.
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There are always other buyers in the marketplace.
That is very true. However, when you don't have much to sell (with Miami & VT gone) and with an extremely weak conference schedule, I'm not sure you'll do that well with the bigger buyers such as PSU, OSU, Miami, Tennessee. Do you think any of those schools will actually agree to a 1 for 1 with you? The days of elitist big brother spouting fire arrows from the Big East are over. The Big East (Least) lost those arrows when the "flagship programs" jumped ship. Without Miami and VT, your new SOS is in the 80's - 90's. WVU needs challenging out of conference games, the likes of Cincinnati are gone becuase they are in your conference, whose next? UCF? A directional Louisiana School? Miami OH? In addition to Rutgers, Syracuse, and USF. Last time I checked, we are much better than them and can actually help your SOS. Why play them (out of conference teams) and not play us?
Any business man is going to try and get what's best for them. Will you sell out to PSU, OSU, Miami, and Tennessee for a 2 for 1? We have done that. Those schools aren't coming to MoTown for an equal deal, unless of course JoePa has a mental lapse concering eastern football, which he occasionally does. This all points to us being equals, and heaven forbid when the Big East football members seperate in 5 years and perhaps Marshall becomes a member? What's going to hapen then? Oh wait Big East, we can't play them in a 1 for 1, they are our little brother. As in life, little brother usually grows up, and when he does, look out for what you've done to him when you were bigger and supposedly better.
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Now comes the time for big brother to swallow his pride and accept little brother and acknowledge his growth and accomplishments.
That will never happen, never has anywhere. KY still hasn't accepted Louisville. Ohio State will never accept Cincy. In many ways Kansas has never accepted Kansas State. It will never happen here.
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WOW, just wow ......
I never said I had "much to sell' and I mentioned no other buyers by name. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't dictate the deals with anyone in this case so asking me what I would do in X for X deals with other programs is really not relevant. Then again opinions are like noses, everyone has one and they all smell.
Let's just agree to disagree or whatever. Market forces will dictate the future of both programs. Good luck with that.
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before this becomes the pissing match between MU/wvu that its most certain to become...I want you to know how much I think your quote below is right on target.
Market forces will dictate the future of both programs.
A lot of your market luster has been lost with the leaving of BC, UM and VT while our luster is getting brighter after ditching the MAC. You guys will get the hint how much we can help each other when you have back to back to back games with UConn, Rutgers and Cincy. That'll make our "market forces" cross pathes. I guarantee it. What I just hope is, our AD doesnt jump on some BS offer to play a 5-2 with you guys before the reality of continued non-sellouts sits in with your AD. We offer you a guarenteed sellout, and everyone knows it.
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W0lfman to the rescue. Sellouts sound good to this business man, which means more $$$$$ to the bottom line. However, this busines man also knows when he is getting screwed. A 5-2 smells just as bad as anyones "nose."
HOOK EM HERD
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Memphis' stadium holds more than Ole Miss' stadium which would allow for most if not all Ole Miss fans that want to attend the ability to get a ticket. Couple that with the fact that the City of Memphis has a lot to offer visitors, and the short distance between the two schools, its a very attractive game for Ole Miss.
I'm not sure you can compare the two situations.
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You are right, however, Huntington has a lot more to offer than Morgantown, minus a few burning couches.
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You are right, however, Huntington has a lot more to offer than Morgantown, minus a few burning couches.
Yet another ear excuse busted. lol
By the way "pantherfan" why did you not get into the Pitt uni thread? Curious why you would pass on posting a comment there for a comment in a MU/wvu thread. :???:
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........as a Pennsylvania native, anytime a Pitt fan posts in favor of WVU, it must be scrutinized heavily. Good job W0lfman.
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WVU's offer is on the table as a "take it on leave it" offer and no one is really sure if it is a 3-1 or 5-2. MU must decide by June 30 or WVU moves on to a VT deal with a home, away, DC series or a PSU series with the same deal but one game in Pittsburg.
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panther fan is just another lying, phony, no backbone wvu fan
what a joke.
i'll give him this though, he's made an @ss of himself several times and continues to return
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WVU's offer is on the table as a "take it on leave it" offer and no one is really sure if it is a 3-1 or 5-2.
If its either of those we move on no questions asked. I'd go so far as doing a two for one to start the series which would actually be a three for one since we played there in 97. After that home and home.
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I think we're missing the point of the negotiations guys. It's not a matter if Marshall will accept a 5-2 or WVU will accept a 1-1. Negotiations are apparently over. It's all but done. It's just a matter of finding out which team's fans are going to feel royally screwed. Debating which contract is fair at this point is moot. It's already been decided. Now we just have to wait until next week to see if the NCAA passes the 12th game.
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I think you guys may be misinterpreting Panther2004's handle. Isn't Dupont HS the Panthers? This guy is a WVU fan. No question about it. If Pitt & WVU hate each other as much as they say.
Personally, where we play them is irrelevant. I want some of their casual fans. I get them if we put a couple hurtins' on their keister.
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That sure as heck sounds familiar!
Our head coach for Tulsa Steve Kragthorpe just told Oklahoma State to take a flying leap at a rolling donut on their offer of a 3-1 deal. I suggest MU de the same with WVU.
When the Minnesotas and others like them will sign 1-1 deals with the Tulsas and Marshalls - and the Oklahoma States and WVUs can sign 1-1 deals with the Little Sisters of The Poor and the Podunk School For The Blind ... why should any of us give them the gigantic, full-house payday of a 2-1 or 3-1 deal?
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Blade
panther fan actually tried to convince us he was a pitt fan a year or so back....and as all pitt fans do, shows up do defend wvu and put down MU pretty regularly. he tries to help us understand our place in the college FB world..
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If the NCAA adds the 12th game, MU and WVU will play 2006 in Morgantown, 2007 in Huntington and 2008 in Morgantown. Then any further games will be negotiated. IF the 12th game is not approved, Manchin has told both administrations that they will get together in his office and adjust their schedules to make the game happen. That was told to me by a very credible source. I know, I know, everyone has credible sources :o
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other than once when a couple of you started bashing me when the discussion was about if a MU/WVU was good for the state of WV. You can't do it.
I'm sorry if you took my post as a put down it wasn't meant to be. Somebody was trying to equate the Ole Miss/Memphis home & home series as a reason a MU/WVU series should be a home & home series when the two situations really don't compare.
As far as the new uniform thread I must have missed it. I would have preferred the old style Pitt but I'm just glad they went back to calling themselves Pitt instead of Pittsburgh.
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I was the one who made that anology and how doesn't it equate? Ole Miss is the SEC, a 10 times better conference than the Big East and WVU is in the Big Least, no teams will compete for a Nat'l Championhip or even be in the Top 20, except for Louisville. An SEC school agrees to play a regional rival in a 1 for 1; MU fans want a regional rival with WVU. It equates perfectly. And both are C-USA schools.
Secondly, PantherFan, as a Pitt fan, you get the same crap served to you by PSU, that we get from WVU. Have you accepted the deal? NO. You even beat PSU 12-0 in 2000, and PSU still demands a 2 for 1 deal.
Thirdly, a very big booster from VT, who lives in Blacksburg and owns an engineering firm in town, has told me personally, that VT wants no part of WVU in a 1 for 1 series, or any other series. He put it like this, why play someone who makes it a life or death situation when you show up to play them in Morgantown. Burning couches and people drinking moonshine before games, don't make visiting fans feel welcome or safe.
If WVU wants a 2 for 1, I will go as far as saying that we will play in Morgantown twice for one here; however, the 2nd game in Morgantown will be a split gate, 50-50 down the line in revenue, just like Florida and Georgia. Take it or leave it. I think Kayo has more bsuness sense than to accept a 5 for 2, but then again, I have been surprised before.
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before this becomes the pissing match between MU/wvu that its most certain to become...I want you to know how much I think your quote below is right on target.
Market forces will dictate the future of both programs.
A lot of your market luster has been lost with the leaving of BC, UM and VT while our luster is getting brighter after ditching the MAC. You guys will get the hint how much we can help each other when you have back to back to back games with UConn, Rutgers and Cincy. That'll make our "market forces" cross pathes. I guarantee it. What I just hope is, our AD doesnt jump on some BS offer to play a 5-2 with you guys before the reality of continued non-sellouts sits in with your AD. We offer you a guarenteed sellout, and everyone knows it.
For WVU to playy Marshall a two for one it would cost us over a millon dollars. Let me explain, we average over 53000 per game . We would sell out with Marshall in town ,but we would have around 8000 tickets being used by the students and other personal tha t are not used each week Now are game day total is 61000 .The stadium only holds 61000 plus . Marshall wants $400,000.00 for the game double what we pay other Non Bcs. That means we lose $200,000.00 the two years Marshall comes to town and the year we go to Huntington we get $ 400,000.00. We can play a home game in the third year and make 1.560,000.00 with theaverage attendence at 52000 selling the tickets $30 .00
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First of all and most importantly if you want a high ranking and a good bowl you must play quality out of conference competition. That is worth more than the difference from a single game.
Using your numbers. (Correct me if I’m wrong here-but this is how it looks to me)
You normally pay $200,000.
We want $400,000. (You get what you pay for )
So your expenses are 200.000 greater.
But you sell an additional 8,000 tix plus. (I’m not sure I get the whole student section thing. Isn’t that pretty much full anyway. Looks like the increase in attendance is pretty much people with bucks in the pocket.)
$30 (per ticket) X 8000 tix = $240,000.
$240,000 (Increased tix sales) - $200,000 (less profit because we are expensive) = $40,000 profit.
Plus you’ll sell an additional 8000 cokes, 10,000 hot dogs, 3,000 boxes of popcorn etc.
Your T-shirt and souvenir sales will be the highest you have all year.
I assume the school owned parking lots are already full but he local economy will get an additional 2,000 or 3,000 parking spaces rented.
Restaurants will sell an additional 5,000 meals probably. Servers will take home a bunch of tips. There won’t be an empty motel room in town.
Looks to me like it's a good deal for the University and for Morgantown.
Now there will one negative effect on your economy.
Furniture store sales will be stagnant. Because when we beat you there won’t be any couches burning….
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You WVU fans need to accept the Big East is a basketball conference now. If the schools with good football teams want to remain a BCS league they need to 1) form a new league or 2) recruit Notre Dame. Option 1 is more likely.
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No way you can prove the exact finances without knowing the three games WVU plays instead of us. I don't think you will get 51000 for a 1-AA or Kent. When Marshall beat New Hampshire in 90(Ithink) we had SRO crowd of 33000 which was more than showed up that day in Morgantown. A few more were in the stands in 97 for us than attended when Notre Dame was there. You will never convince me that it's about money(not scheduling us). The interest and dollars are there. For restaurants and gas stations, motels and hotels as well as the schools. Several other states had the exact same circumstances and it took the legislatures to mandate a game. I really like playing the high profile schools that we have scheduled lately and would just as soon not fool with WVU until the state gives us a fair share of the monies but I just get sick of the excuses. We offered a 3 for 1 a while back with 400000 for WVU"s trip. They said no and I was tickled to death.
GO HERD
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It doesn't matter what conferences your talking about or what teams for that matter. Why would anybody within 2 hours distance of Memphis (or any other city that has as much to offer visitors as Memphis) not like to schedule a 1-1 with Memphis (or whatever school is located in the particular city that has a larger stadium than your own).
Your fans will like it because its close, its in a place they would more than likely love to spend a weekend and more than likely there will be plenty of tickets available to them. Their fans will come to your place because its close, although I doubt many will stay for the weekend in Starkville.
Huntington is a fine town and you have a fine stadium, however, neither offer the advantages to a visiting team that Memphis offers to Ole Miss (or any other school within a couple of hours drive).
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We offered a 3 for 1 a while back with 400000 for WVU"s trip.
What other school the status of wvu turns down an offer like that? And even better question...would wvu turn down an offer like that from any other D1A program in the country? I dont think they would. But we will really never know b/c wvu wont get an offer like that from anyone else. Anything more than a 2 fer 1 and a home and home thereafter is wasting our time.
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Pantherfan, my point exactly. A couple of hours drive. Why not play us? We are only 2.5 - 3 hours away and all the benefits to both towns help the state. We at Marshall are arguing for the state of WV, IMO, the folks from WVU are arguing for their bottom line; and the state seems to be tilting toward WVU? More $$$ to the citizens & businesses of their state and they are as narrow minded as WVU fans seem to be on this issue.
I'l take a 2 for 1 with Miami FL, Tennessee, Kansas State, Virginia Tech, and even a 1 for 0 with Georgia anyday over a 3 for 1 and/or 5 for 2 with WVU. These schools aren't afraid to play us, they have much more to lose than WVU, and they are all more prestigious, have been in the Nat'l Title Hunt every year since 1997, and a bigger player in the national perspective that WVU. Miami, arguable WVU's biggest Big East rival, won't schedule them. Why? Who knows? But, I am sure we can all guess.
Schedule a Kent and you'll get 35,000 for the game. Wofford this year? How about 38,000 - 42,000. These schools have to schedule you, becuase they need the $$$$. We are simply saying stuff the $$$$ and do us fairly. Even with us schduling W&M, with Mark Snyder 1st game as head coach, I am predicting 35,000 - 38,000. Schedule Marshall fairly, and you'll have to get temporary seats put in one endzone to accomodate the overfolw.
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Mark Snyder 1st game as head coach, I am predicting 35,000 - 38,000. Schedule Marshall fairly, and you'll have to get temporary seats put in one endzone to accomodate the overfolw.
We are going to get a jump in attend. THF, but I don't see 35 K for William and Mary. The K-State game will sell out with SRO. And I predict our attend goes up from 27 K to 31-32 this year. With a steady increase the next 5 years.
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Texasherdfan, I agree the two should play each other if both schools can be happy with whatever arrangement can be made. I was just pointing out that the Ole Miss/Memphis 1-1 would be much more attractive to Ole Miss than a MU/WVU 1-1 would be to WVU and therefor is not a good example when trying to make the point that MU/WVU should be a 1-1.
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Then when the Big East splits in 5 years, and Marshall could be an addtion to the football only members conference, what will WVU's excuse for not playing us be then? I can't wait.
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a choice in the matter at that point.
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Marshall, A wise choice by the Big East in 5 years, I might add.
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First of all and most importantly if you want a high ranking and a good bowl you must play quality out of conference competition. That is worth more than the difference from a single game.
Using your numbers. (Correct me if I’m wrong here-but this is how it looks to me)
You normally pay $200,000.
We want $400,000. (You get what you pay for )
So your expenses are 200.000 greater.
But you sell an additional 8,000 tix plus. (I’m not sure I get the whole student section thing. Isn’t that pretty much full anyway. Looks like the increase in attendance is pretty much people with bucks in the pocket.)
We do need top quality programs on our schedule , but if think Marshall would fill the role of a quality team let me laugh. Just name name eight quality teams Marshall beat in the last eight years. Yes you have a 69-20 in regular season play but your wins came against nobodies nintey percent of the time
$30 (per ticket) X 8000 tix = $240,000.
$240,000 (Increased tix sales) - $200,000 (less profit because we are expensive) = $40,000 profit.
Plus you’ll sell an additional 8000 cokes, 10,000 hot dogs, 3,000 boxes of popcorn etc.
Your T-shirt and souvenir sales will be the highest you have all year.
I assume the school owned parking lots are already full but he local economy will get an additional 2,000 or 3,000 parking spaces rented.
Restaurants will sell an additional 5,000 meals probably. Servers will take home a bunch of tips. There won’t be an empty motel room in town.
Looks to me like it's a good deal for the University and for Morgantown.
Now there will one negative effect on your economy.
Furniture store sales will be stagnant. Because when we beat you there won’t be any couches burning….
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wvufan26501, was there supposed to be a post with your last message? There was nothing after it, just wondering (and not trying to pick a fight.)
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wvufan26501, was there supposed to be a post with your last message? There was nothing after it, just wondering (and not trying to pick a fight.)
Must not have taken. Wrote We do need quality games out of conference, but Marshall with their 69 wins in regular season over the last eight years dose not qualify you as a quality team. Nintey percent of your wins were against nobodies and i do mean nobodies. Just name eight teams you beat that was even a top 75 team
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We'll go suck up someone else's air then. We, most of us, don't really give a d@#$ what you, and WVU do anyway, so go blow another 01.
GO THUNDERINGHERD!
:smile:
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Miami OH, Toledo, BYU, K State, WMU, Clemson, NIU, BGSU, UL, UC.
I could go on, but I don't see a need to.
Let's BOTH be honest. WVU and Marshall both have played and beat some good teams. However, I think it's more than fair to say that both teams have padded their stats against lousy teams. We've both played doormats. We've both played 1-AA teams. Don't EVEN try and take the high road on strength of schedule.
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Simple Ignorance. Now I know why my Pitt friens say the only good a Buckeye is for, is to knock out an ignorant Mountaineer.
The more I read these ignorant comments, it screams that WVUfan is using reverse psychology. He is using it to make us think that WVU doens't want to play us. It also make us think we don't want to play them. It is a tactic used when someone or school is scared to play. Nice try, but I am throwing the bull$$$t flag on this. Come play us I dare you, or that is if you and the other eers have the intestinal fortitude. i doubt it, you havebeen avoding it for the past few years. When the Big East loses thier BCS slot after the 2006 season. You'll be in even more trouble, schedule wise, than you are now.
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Miami OH, Toledo, BYU, K State, WMU, Clemson, NIU, BGSU, UL, UC.
I could go on, but I don't see a need to.
Let's BOTH be honest. WVU and Marshall both have played and beat some good teams. However, I think it's more than fair to say that both teams have padded their stats against lousy teams. We've both played doormats. We've both played 1-AA teams. Don't EVEN try and take the high road on strength of schedule.
I asked for eight but checking your wins could find 6 . No wins in 19997 one in 1998 Miami two in 1999 clemson and W Mich none in 2000 one in 2001 Bowling Green Central Fla in 2002 and a great win against Kan. in 2003 .Your sos for the first eight years is still 106 ,only 118 div one teams
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I'm not going to get bogged down in a statistics match with you, especially when you come over to a HERD board to talk smack. However right off the bat, I can tell you forgot BYU (a top 25 team), UC, UL (twice). I don't know about ECU in 2002.
Again, don't come on here trying to talk smack about S.O.S when WVU plays one of the weakest for a BCS school. I made the concession that Marshall has played some bad teams. WVU has got beat by some bad teams as well.
I'll take Smack talk about SOS from a UGA or OSU fan. But not from a WVU fan. Trailer trash that live in glass outhouses shouldn't throw kidney stones.
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Nintey percent of your wins were against nobodies
You boys can only sing one song...
I'm sorry the, "We lose to better teams than you beat," has lost it's luster.
Strap it on or shut up.
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01, you seem to be a master baiter, and probably are very popular around your M'Q'eer buddies, but once again I beg you to go suck up someone elses air, and no more master baiting please, on the Herd Fans Board! Like I said once before, go blow on another 01. Are you so dumb, that you cannot catch the clue, without our becoming rude?
GO THUNDERINGHERD!
:smile:
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Heres the answer to the 3-1
Told of Pastilong's 3-for-1 stance, Marcum said Sunday that buffaloes will fly before Marshall would agree to such an arrangement.
As I said we are no longer I-AA nor a SOCon team, if so maybe that agreement works.
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"If that is Ed's position, then we wouldn't be interested," Marcum said.
Nuff said. Take your ball and go home eerdiots.
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We don't need WVU to survive, why even try, hey let them play with Wofford and James Madison. maybe thats what they want.