Topic: Hoops commits

[MUfan08]

I'm not saying you guys are wrong, because I really don't know, but just a thought. Just become we show up on some kids list of schools that have reached out to them after they entered the portal doesn't necessarily mean we expressed strong interest. With all the numbers in the portal I would not be surprised if we "expressed interest" before we even knew if we wanted the kid.  This transfer window stuff with all these players becoming available in a short time frame feels like a huge game of musical chairs.

True

But when we have players that have been offered and have visited and they go to places like Robert Morris, Penn, and Longwood, it begins to be discouraging.

But there are still over 3,000 players in the portal (numbers do not include D3 and NAIA) plenty of players at the JUCO/CC and the high school preps.

We need a couple of players that can handle the ball to score and deliver (either PG or SGs).

See how this roster looks in a month with Fulford now here and some allocation for NIL now.

[whf]

I'm not saying you guys are wrong, because I really don't know, but just a thought. Just become we show up on some kids list of schools that have reached out to them after they entered the portal doesn't necessarily mean we expressed strong interest. With all the numbers in the portal I would not be surprised if we "expressed interest" before we even knew if we wanted the kid.  This transfer window stuff with all these players becoming available in a short time frame feels like a huge game of musical chairs.

I'm with you on this, inquiring/contacting and offering are two different things. As you say, if we offered all those kids who've listed us, and many accepted, we'd be up shixcreek really fast.  Talking to a kid isn't near offering a kid. For a kid to say he or she has gotten interest from a school can be nothing more than a first phone call from a rep of the college.

[herdorbust2]

I'm with you on this, inquiring/contacting and offering are two different things. As you say, if we offered all those kids who've listed us, and many accepted, we'd be up shixcreek really fast.  Talking to a kid isn't near offering a kid. For a kid to say he or she has gotten interest from a school can be nothing more than a first phone call from a rep of the college.

Well the bottom line is we still haven't got any commitments from ball handling/creating guards. And I'm sure we have made offers to those type players since it's our #1 priority. No matter how you want to twist it the result is the same.

[Luke80]

I agree that is concerning. I just don't know if we definitely competed for and lost out to schools for those kids.

[Haveyouherd222]

The last two days we've been talking to a P5 guard.    He asks for $60K.   What do you want to do?   We don't have that.   The kids going to RMU and Longwood are getting on average, $40K.     Again, what do you want to do?

[Big City]

The last two days we've been talking to a P5 guard.    He asks for $60K.   What do you want to do?   We don't have that.   The kids going to RMU and Longwood are getting on average, $40K.     Again, what do you want to do?

See that's where I would push back a lot.

Let's get you 15-20k, come to mu and help produce the wins, and you'll get to 80k. Performance based agreements.

[GreenDaddy]

See that's where I would push back a lot.

Let's get you 15-20k, come to mu and help produce the wins, and you'll get to 80k. Performance based agreements.

I don't disagree with your line of thinking, but let me play devils advocate. Why would a kid give up a guaranteed 60K regardless of performance, for 15-20K, knowing that the rest will depend on what kind of season he has?

If I am a getting offered 60K guaranteed, I'm taking it, over a performance based potential 20K more.

[bearmann64]

Great concept , but unless its a guy like Kinsey, they will take the 60k which is unfortunate for us. How bout we use the money owed to Dan since a lot of this is his fault.

[HoPPy785]

See that's where I would push back a lot.

Let's get you 15-20k, come to mu and help produce the wins, and you'll get to 80k. Performance based agreements.

That's a decent plan, but who is paying on this deal?

Incentive based deals would be a step toward a contract with a length of time commitment.

[herdorbust2]

The last two days we've been talking to a P5 guard.    He asks for $60K.   What do you want to do?   We don't have that.   The kids going to RMU and Longwood are getting on average, $40K.     Again, what do you want to do?

You have been dead on accurate on every thing you have said. And it has helped me to realize Marshall can't compete with Longwood, Robert Morris etc,, it's really sad when you can't compete with those schools and made my decision about getting season tickets for me and losing almost all the interest in my favorite sport and team ever. I appreciate your honesty and info.

[chris88]

The last two days we've been talking to a P5 guard.    He asks for $60K.   What do you want to do?   We don't have that.   The kids going to RMU and Longwood are getting on average, $40K.     Again, what do you want to do?

Any agent/kid can ask for anything. You want to get into a bidding war for a marginal player??  Tell them and their agent we aren't bribing kids to come to Marshall if that is their biggest concern than they should look elsewhere. Just like FAU and Dusty May did before the Final Four run. Move on to the next kid on the list and wish them well playing at RMU in front of less than 1k fans or in Farmville where the town has 7,200 people.

[2xBison]

The last two days we've been talking to a P5 guard.    He asks for $60K.   What do you want to do?   We don't have that.   The kids going to RMU and Longwood are getting on average, $40K.     Again, what do you want to do?

We aren't sure but we know we don't want to pay for it.


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[MUfan08]

See that's where I would push back a lot.

Let's get you 15-20k, come to mu and help produce the wins, and you'll get to 80k. Performance based agreements.

That's not going to work with current NCAA rules that NIL deals cannot be performance based.

Now, in a year when everything changes when the NCAA and conference begin revenue sharing with players and the start of collective bargaining agreements begin, performance deals will work.

[Big City]

That's not going to work with current NCAA rules that NIL deals cannot be performance based.

Now, in a year when everything changes when the NCAA and conference begin revenue sharing with players and the start of collective bargaining agreements begin, performance deals will work.

That's great. I don't claim to know the rules, nor do I care to. I don't have the time or energy to dig into it.  I just said, "that's where I'd push back," meaning if things were up to me.

[Haveyouherd222]

Behind the scenes, a big push is being made with NIL.   Again, we will be in a much better position after this year.   The cupboard was bare.  We're going to get to quality guards this year, but I think you're going to see a jump in acquiring more transfers from D1 schools next year.    We will have more to give.   Corny will have to decide how he wants to split the pot.   Other than Andy, Dan wanted to give every guy on the team the exact same thing.   That line of thinking won't work.   Right now, we can offer a kid a small amount, rent, and a few kids have gotten automobiles.    We just don't have the $40,$50,$80K that these kids are asking for.

[Garbanjo]

Great concept , but unless its a guy like Kinsey, they will take the 60k which is unfortunate for us. How bout we use the money owed to Dan since a lot of this is his fault.

DD should be out fundraising for BBall

Would be a great use of his charisma and connections

[MUfan08]

DD should be out fundraising for BBall

Would be a great use of his charisma and connections

I mean that is now a part of his job description of being the "Ambassador" is helping with fundraising.

[Garbanjo]

I mean that is now a part of his job description of being the "Ambassador" is helping with fundraising.

Time to get after it DD!

Make some rain ol dude

Go Herd!

[herdorbust2]

Behind the scenes, a big push is being made with NIL.   Again, we will be in a much better position after this year.   The cupboard was bare.  We're going to get to quality guards this year, but I think you're going to see a jump in acquiring more transfers from D1 schools next year.    We will have more to give.   Corny will have to decide how he wants to split the pot.   Other than Andy, Dan wanted to give every guy on the team the exact same thing.   That line of thinking won't work.   Right now, we can offer a kid a small amount, rent, and a few kids have gotten automobiles.    We just don't have the $40,$50,$80K that these kids are asking for.

Well if they can't land a difference maker guard this year then this years team is sunk. We saw what happened last year without a good PG. and I still say year after next will be even worse with more money. At least this team was being built around Obinna and Martin. If the top 10 guys require on average 40k then we need 400k a year or at least 300k minimum. I see no way in this area we can bring in 400k a year just for basketball year after year after year. And how we going to get a quality guard this year if there is no money?

[herd2win]

The math is simple on this to me.  Winning brings in more money.

Winning team, 2000 extra fans a home game, $20 a ticket for 15 games.  That would equal $600k of extra revenue that MU could use for NIL.  Self funding program to be successful.

[svherd]

Behind the scenes, a big push is being made with NIL.   Again, we will be in a much better position after this year.   The cupboard was bare.  We're going to get to quality guards this year, but I think you're going to see a jump in acquiring more transfers from D1 schools next year.    We will have more to give.   Corny will have to decide how he wants to split the pot.   Other than Andy, Dan wanted to give every guy on the team the exact same thing.   That line of thinking won't work.   Right now, we can offer a kid a small amount, rent, and a few kids have gotten automobiles.    We just don't have the $40,$50,$80K that these kids are asking for.

Wonder if Dan, Mike and some others have thrown some cash into the kitty. We are in a pickle. We don't have a lot of big time donors, and the smaller peon donors like me can't afford huge amounts. Thus, do we continue to give to the BG, or do we pull those funds and allocate them to a specific sports NIL? Tough decision.

[Flat Tire 2]

Any agent/kid can ask for anything. You want to get into a bidding war for a marginal player??  Tell them and their agent we aren't bribing kids to come to Marshall if that is their biggest concern than they should look elsewhere. Just like FAU and Dusty May did before the Final Four run. Move on to the next kid on the list and wish them well playing at RMU in front of less than 1k fans or in Farmville where the town has 7,200 people.

Good point. A kid can ask for anything, but you make a counter offer. Every player is not going to get his asking price. It is interesting to see that Huff is finding players in the portal. Not to be negative, but basketball supporters always seem to have an excuse; airplanes; practice facility and NIL; I wonder when the excuses will stop. 

If the NIL is the problem, shame on Marshall officials for not getting a basketball coach who would deal with the issue. I am still surprise that Marshall kept Dan for so long when it was obvious he wasn't a good coach and he didn't know how to manage a college basketball program. Again, Huff was proactive and is hitting the portal.

I am still amazed that Morehead State could build a better basketball program than Marshall. Say what you want about Huntington and Marshall being "poor", but Morehead is not a exactly in the most affluent town in Kentucky. If they can do it, why not Marshall?

[chris88]

Rewarding greed only perpetuates more greed.  Gather all the money you want and it likely isn't going to change your place much in your conference standings or in college BB as a whole. A decent player who you pay up front and has a good year is going to ask for more the next year or bolt. You may get lucky one year and win but it is not a sustainable operation. The teams with the best coaches are still going to win. If teams winning leagues is simply the best team money can buy than what is the point anyway? Like so many things these days, the groupthink is astounding. Don't blame Micah or AT because DD, imo, was running program into the ground. But if DD or whoever was winning like Kim did, than i'm willing to bet most of the kids on team stay around. And even then the grass isn't always greener as AT found out and sadly Micah ended up with a major injury. Point being that sometimes it is about multiple issues but for those kids where it really is all about the money than, in the long run, those kids are not going to be good for your program.

Set it up to help the kid earn the NIL money after they are here and successful. If it is a kid whose family is obviously struggling to make ends meet than allow some of that money to flow to them. Share revenue from championships after expenses.  Beyond that it's just a bunch of people wasting their money imo. Assuming I could pay my bills, I would be embarrassed, as a parent, to feel the need to join an extortion racket vs finding the best place for my son to earn their degree and have a great college experience on and off the court.

[herdorbust2]

Good point. A kid can ask for anything, but you make a counter offer. Every player is not going to get his asking price. It is interesting to see that Huff is finding players in the portal. Not to be negative, but basketball supporters always seem to have an excuse; airplanes; practice facility and NIL; I wonder when the excuses will stop. 

If the NIL is the problem, shame on Marshall officials for not getting a basketball coach who would deal with the issue. I am still surprise that Marshall kept Dan for so long when it was obvious he wasn't a good coach and he didn't know how to manage a college basketball program. Again, Huff was proactive and is hitting the portal.

I am still amazed that Morehead State could build a better basketball program than Marshall. Say what you want about Huntington and Marshall being "poor", but Morehead is not a exactly in the most affluent town in Kentucky. If they can do it, why not Marshall?

But remember Dan said we were too good to go to Morehead and play in their high school gym. Dans thinking was all over the place and never rooted in reality.

[HoPPy785]

Rewarding greed only perpetuates more greed.  Gather all the money you want and it likely isn't going to change your place much in your conference standings or in college BB as a whole. A decent player who you pay up front and has a good year is going to ask for more the next year or bolt. You may get lucky one year and win but it is not a sustainable operation. The teams with the best coaches are still going to win. If teams winning leagues is simply the best team money can buy than what is the point anyway? Like so many things these days, the groupthink is astounding. Don't blame Micah or AT because DD, imo, was running program into the ground. But if DD or whoever was winning like Kim did, than i'm willing to bet most of the kids on team stay around. And even then the grass isn't always greener as AT found out and sadly Micah ended up with a major injury. Point being that sometimes it is about multiple issues but for those kids where it really is all about the money than, in the long run, those kids are not going to be good for your program.

Set it up to help the kid earn the NIL money after they are here and successful. If it is a kid whose family is obviously struggling to make ends meet than allow some of that money to flow to them. Share revenue from championships after expenses.  Beyond that it's just a bunch of people wasting their money imo. Assuming I could pay my bills, I would be embarrassed, as a parent, to feel the need to join an extortion racket vs finding the best place for my son to earn their degree and have a great college experience on and off the court.

Unfortunately you currently aren't allowed to setup NIL deals based on performance or incentives. I hope that changes. Also schools can't pay the players and revenue sharing isn't allowed, yet. I'm sure these things will change.

Currently the NIL system heavily favors big money programs. It seems Dan took the wait and see who doesn't get money and pick from the pile. That doesn't seem to work. We will need a minimum NIL, which sounds like is being addressed.