Topic: Forget RPI...the state of MU basketball in laymen's terms

[2xBison]

Here you go.  Our season overview.  As far as I can tell wvu and ucf wins are the highlights along with a couple of close losses to memphis, utep and GW.  after that, it's down right embarassing and pitiful.

West Liberty - Win 83-78 - barely beat this small WV school.  really should have lost.

Glenville State - Win 104-62 - that's what i'm talking about (sarcasm)

now onto the real season.

Evansville - road Loss 91-81 - they ended up 4-14 in the Mizzou Valley and finished 8th of 10 teams.  overall 10-19

Virginia Tech road Loss 71-54 - 4-12 in ACC overall losing record at 14-15.  spanked by a bottom feeder of a power conf.

Evansville - home win 70-67 - one three pointer away from losing at home to this 8th place losing record Mizzou Valley team.

East Tenn St - road Loss 91-63 spanked by former SC mate.  they aren't the power you recall either.  ESTU is now in the Atl Sun and finished 5th of 11.  6-8 in this weak conference and 14-16 overall.  spanked by a low end team with a losing record.

Maryland Eastern Shore - home win 66-56 - 4-12 in the lowly Mid eastern conference.  7-22 overall.  10th place of 11 teams in the Mid eastern.  yippee it's a W.

Youngstown State home win 73-70 - one three pointer away from a loss to this last place Horizon League team (at least it's a decent league).  4-12 in conference and 7-21 overall.

Appy State home LOSS 73-65 - lost to a former SC mate again.  this one was 4th in the 5 team SC North.  6-8 in conf. 14-16 overall. not only lost, but at home?

Charleston Southern home win 82-53 - 6th place in 9 team Big south.  7-9 conf and 12-16 overall.

South carolina State LOSS 71-66 - this Mideastern Conf team ended up 4th of 11 in this low end league.  7-9 conf 13-15 overall.

Kennesaw State win 77-74 - actually embarassing that we even entered a tourney with SCST and KST.  a three pointer away from losing to this Atl Sun team.  7th of 11 teams. 10-10 conf. 12-17 overall.

Appy State - road win 64-60 second time is a charm.  eeked out a close win against this team SC team with a losing record.  see above.

GW - home loss in OT - yippee we played a very good team close, but lost.

UCF - road win 73-69 - two starters out for UCF.  eeked out win.  hey, and they don't have a losing record!!!!  first win against a .500 team.  ucf 5th in league and 7-7 conf 14-14 overall

UAB home loss 76-64 - they have a winning record, we can't win.

Tulsa road loss 66-57 - tulsa finished 6-8 in conf and overall 11-17.  early exit from tourney just like us.

UTEP home loss 53-51 - yippee played another good team close.  but, they have a winning record we can't win.

WVU neutral win 58-52 - great win.  pitiful shooting by wvu allows us to pull off another upset.  FIRST and ONLY win over team with a winning record unless you count UCF moving over .500 with first round win.

Houston road loss 69-56 - again, they have a winning record.  we can't win.

east carolina home win 72-66 - i've seen HS teams shoot better than ECU.  got the W against ecu 2-12 in conf.  8-20 overall.

Tulane road loss 61-36 - how do you lose by 25 while holding someone to 61?  spanked by team that had losing conf record of 6-8 and overall 12-16

Rice home loss 78-75 - rice had conf record of 6-8 and overall 12-16.

Memphis home loss 91-81 - yippee, played a great team close most of the game, but lose at home.  

SMU road win 75-72 - one three pointer away from losing to the 4-10 conf and 13-15 overall mustangs.  takes Patton having a career game to eek out the win.

ECU road loss 63-59 - couldn't get the sweep even though ecu sucks.  lost to this 2-12 and 8-20 team.

So Miss home win 62-57 - eeked out win against this 3-11 conf and 10-20 overall team at home.  but you know what, they are still playing in Memphis and we're done.

UCF home win 73-61 - break out the broom, we got a sweep over this former Atl Sun power.  after wvu, the two ucf wins are as good as it gets as they are a .500 team.  they went over .500 last night.

UAB road loss 82-61 - swept and spanked by this good team.

Tourney loss to Tulane 64-58. - at least we kept it close.  jirsa 30 second time out when we had 3-1 break with 6 minutes to go puzzling.  bounced out of tourney by the 6-8 conf and 13-16 overall team.

There you have it.  That's where we are.  Looking back at who we played and the records both in and out of conference I do not know how jirsa did not have a winning record.  how bad we must be.

[marcbuff]

with the cupcakes at the beginning, should have had at least a winning record. It is sad :(

[NC Thunder]

2xBison-For someone who doesn't care about MU basketball and has said so time and time again, you sure do seem to be obsessed with driving
home a point that is very clear to all by now.  I just don't see what the
belly-aching is going to achieve.  It certainly is not changing the quality
of BB at MU!  If you really don't care, then my advice is to let it go.
Act as if it doesn't exist.  Of course, that is just my friendly advice.
And it is just friendly advice between two Herd fans who have shared
a few cold ones.  Peace.

[Photo by]

Just in case someone is encouraged by the RPI. Here's some numbers for comparison. Of course the ones will fluctuate for this years as the teams above us (way above us) enter tournament play. Also the systems are set up to determine the top teams. One of you math/stat guys maybe can educate us, but it seems to me the farther you are from the top the less accurate the numbers are.

Sagarin

'06  Ranking

231   Strength of Schedule 211
'05  Ranking 214   Strength of Schedule 68[/list]

RPI

'06  Ranking

223   Strength of Schedule 195
'05  Ranking 278   Strength of Schedule 17[/list]

So we lost ground in one system for the ranking and gained in the other. But look at the strength of schedule. My guess is that if you take into account the margin for error you cannot say that we improved.

Looks to me, overall, we are actually worse this year than last.

[2xBison]

As a season ticket holder and BG member, I'll say what I damn well please.  hope that doesn't sound to short, but that is blunt way of putting how i feel about it.

As far as not caring, it's a broader point about crowds and overall apathy to the program.  Sure I care about the program, but not to the point that I watched the game on CSTV or even listened to more than 10 minutes of the broadcast.  That's pretty apathetic considering I've been attending games for over 32 years and haven't reached 40 yet, and as I said do purchase season tickets.  

As far as this post goes, I don't see anything unusual about a review of the season the day after it ends.

I don't expect it to change anything with the program.  I suppose it possibly could change some minds of those that seem to think we are headed in the right direction.  

peace to you as well.  

there is no where to go but up from here.  here's hoping jirsa will get it going.

[West Virginia Pride]

Anyone who knows anything about human nature can tell how much this man cares about MU. He has pride in his team. He is the type of fan every school long's to have. I agree with him 100%, and we have never met.

ps. I think it is time MU fans stopped thinking someone who uses a West Virginia posting name is anti-MU. I mean MU is in WV. Also, to hate "Country Roads" because WVU uses it is plain stupid. MU has as much right to use this song as does anyone in West Virginia. If geography had anything to do with the song, only people in Virginia could use it.

[Thunders]

As a season ticket holder and BG member, I'll say what I damn well please.  hope that doesn't sound to short, but that is blunt way of putting how i feel about it.

As far as not caring, it's a broader point about crowds and overall apathy to the program.  Sure I care about the program, but not to the point that I watched the game on CSTV or even listened to more than 10 minutes of the broadcast.  That's pretty apathetic considering I've been attending games for over 32 years and haven't reached 40 yet, and as I said do purchase season tickets.  

As far as this post goes, I don't see anything unusual about a review of the season the day after it ends.

I don't expect it to change anything with the program.  I suppose it possibly could change some minds of those that seem to think we are headed in the right direction.  

peace to you as well.  

there is no where to go but up from here.  here's hoping jirsa will get it going.

I'm with ya brotha!  Those who say we improved just look at what we improved against.  The only reason why 2xBison is driving the point home is for the homers who continue to blow sunshine up Marcum and Jirsa's @ss!  People keep bringing up the "we improved" excuse and if you look at what he put above along with what Photo By put above with the RPI rankings you will see we actually got worse.   Woody and Chuck are homers and they are WAY off base on their assessment of this team. All they see is we moved to a different conf. (that used to be a good conf. before ALL but one of its best teams left for the BE)  and that we have a better record by numbers. We beat ONE good team. The rest of the teams were complete losers.  

And we LOST to some of the WORST team in the country!! How is that improving.  They pull out a couple good shooting games behind the arc and then explode against a team they should beat by 15!! That is not improving that is called streaky and it is called bad coaching.

[NC Thunder]

Fair enough.

[2xBison]

cool.  we'll share some more cold ones when you are in for FB games.

get a hold of wolf or pm me then.

[West Virginia Pride]

People who come to this board and post they are satisfied with the MU BB team, are either working for the administration, have family involved with the program, or simply are out of the loop. Two 7 footers. That could be Willie Wilcox and Willie Willcox's twin brother. I have been told one of them may have potential, the other is an eight year project.

Take Me Home Country Roads Should Be a Marshall Song, They are In WV, and have 100% the right to use this song.

[Photo by]

...That could be Willie Wilcox and Willie Willcox's twin brother.

Hey, don't go trashin' Willie. We won every game he played in.

[Thunders]

Yeah, I have seen some 7 footers who can't even tie their shoes let alone play basketball.  Height means JACK SQUAT.  I have seen 7 footers get the ball stuffed in their face by point guards because they sucked.  If you can't rebound, can't shoot, can't dunk and can't catch a quick pass underneath then what good does the height do you. You are just a body in there.

Anyone remember John Brown when Billy was here?  Dude was huge and I swear he could not dunk a ball to save his life!!  I remember seeing him miss so many dunks because he was getting stuffed by the rim!  Occasionally he would have a good game. That is an example of height not meaning very much.

If height meant everything then Muggsy Boges(sp?) would have never made it to the NBA and Shawn Bradley (7 ft 6 in.) would have been a star. Needless to say Shawn was a bust.

[HerdnBucks]

2X's post drives home a startling point to those who see great improvement next year.  Marshall only played SEVEN teams the entire year with winning records (1-6).  Not to dismiss Marcum's cupcake scheduling acumen, but it would be almost impossible to have a weaker schedule in '06-'07 than we were handed this year.  
So, taking a big swig of green kool-aid, let's make the leap of faith that our mystery seven-footers are going to be dramatically better than our two departing big men and Merthie really is Michael Jordan.  Then what?  Home, Home and Kyova Mall contracts with Morehead and Shawnee State?  Bottom line is Marshall MIGHT be marginally better next year. But, almost by default, the opponents will be MUCH better and the likelihood of a winning season will be slim.

[gtrman4herd]

People who come to this board and post they are satisfied with the MU BB team, are either working for the administration, have family involved with the program, or simply are out of the loop. .

Those kind of statements are what polarize fans. First of all, I don;t know of anyone that is in favor of giving Jirsa another year who are satisified with anything. Some of you completely miscontrue the meaning of giving a guy ample chance as to being satisfied.

Why do some of you feel the need to trash a kid before he has stepped foot on campus. Have you guys that are so skeptical of these guys ever seen either of them play? One of these guys was heading to Villanova, but had grade issues. Talk about a rush to judgement!!!!  These guys are future Herd players, give them a friggin change at least!!!!!

And thunders, for crying out loud, while Bradley hasn't put up numbers like Shaq, he is in his 12th year in the NBA and his career stats are 8 pts and 6 reb per game. Not Hall of Fame numbers but hes made a pretty damned good living doing what a lot of us would love to be doing.  Your meaning of bust must be completely different than mine!

[West Virginia Pride]

People who come to this board and post they are satisfied with the MU BB team, are either working for the administration, have family involved with the program, or simply are out of the loop. .

Those kind of statements are what polarize fans. First of all, I don;t know of anyone that is in favor of giving Jirsa another year who are satisified with anything. Some of you completely miscontrue the meaning of giving a guy ample chance as to being satisfied.

Why do some of you feel the need to trash a kid before he has stepped foot on campus. Have you guys that are so skeptical of these guys ever seen either of them play? One of these guys was heading to Villanova, but had grade issues. Talk about a rush to judgement!!!!  These guys are future Herd players, give them a friggin change at least!!!!!

And thunders, for crying out loud, while Bradley hasn't put up numbers like Shaq, he is in his 12th year in the NBA and his career stats are 8 pts and 6 reb per game. Not Hall of Fame numbers but hes made a pretty damned good living doing what a lot of us would love to be doing.  Your meaning of bust must be completely different than mine!

Well yes I would agree and I have retracted my statement somewhat. We have two non project 7 footers, two potential collegiate all-americans and an improved M. Humphrey for next year. The players that shot 20% from the field last night in the second half have graduated and we are on our way to a 20 win season next year I hope. I think after 20 years we as fans deserve to look foward to next years team.

[Thunders]

People who come to this board and post they are satisfied with the MU BB team, are either working for the administration, have family involved with the program, or simply are out of the loop. .

Those kind of statements are what polarize fans. First of all, I don;t know of anyone that is in favor of giving Jirsa another year who are satisified with anything. Some of you completely miscontrue the meaning of giving a guy ample chance as to being satisfied.

Why do some of you feel the need to trash a kid before he has stepped foot on campus. Have you guys that are so skeptical of these guys ever seen either of them play? One of these guys was heading to Villanova, but had grade issues. Talk about a rush to judgement!!!!  These guys are future Herd players, give them a friggin change at least!!!!!

And thunders, for crying out loud, while Bradley hasn't put up numbers like Shaq, he is in his 12th year in the NBA and his career stats are 8 pts and 6 reb per game. Not Hall of Fame numbers but hes made a pretty damned good living doing what a lot of us would love to be doing.  Your meaning of bust must be completely different than mine!

When you are drafted #2 I can bet you the team who drafted him (can't remember) was pretty disappointed with the results. Go look under NBA busts and you will see Bradleys name near the top.  He is a bust and obviously by many others.

I am not saying these 7 footers suck, all I am saying is that people need to be cautious of what they say about a player. They are young and they are projects as far as I'm concerned.  That Boe Grebe kid hasn't shown me much of anything and maybe he will get better but who knows. The way Woody and Chuck talked him up you would have thought he was the second coming or somthing.  They kept saying "wait till this kid gets in" ...well.....he got in and I saw nothing to get excited about.  Just like they say, "wait till next year when we have these 7 footers" .  I guess we will see. I am not holding my breath for them to be great.  

All I know is that Marcum has publically been putting all his stock in these 7 footers as the saving grace of MU basketball and with his rep already in deep water this will be his ticket out if they don't perform.

[Thundering Herd]

I think a lot of people are giving the seven footers too much credit.  All we heard about all year was Bro Grebe (6'9'') did not play and that made a difference.  Once he came in he only got 17 points all year and wasnt much of a factor.  Oglesby is 6' 10" and only got 2 points all season.  So I don't think that two extra inches is going to magically getting us a winning record.

We lost our best player that White recruited.  Next year will be long. I expect more wins in football than basketball.

[herdya]

In three seasons with Jirsa only 8 ..yes I said 8 wins have been against teams with winning records.  :-?

Here are those powerhouses:

Ball State
Little Miami
Morehead
Buffalo
Western Michigan
UAB
WVU (twice)

[svherd]

I would look for Oglesby and Lamb to transfer after this year. We have tons of guards and a few big guys coming in so it will be interesting. This isn't gospel, just my speculation.

[goherd123]

Just in case someone is encouraged by the RPI. Here's some numbers for comparison. Of course the ones will fluctuate for this years as the teams above us (way above us) enter tournament play. Also the systems are set up to determine the top teams. One of you math/stat guys maybe can educate us, but it seems to me the farther you are from the top the less accurate the numbers are.

Sagarin

'06  Ranking

231   Strength of Schedule 211
'05  Ranking 214   Strength of Schedule 68[/list]

RPI

'06  Ranking

223   Strength of Schedule 195
'05  Ranking 278   Strength of Schedule 17[/list]

So we lost ground in one system for the ranking and gained in the other. But look at the strength of schedule. My guess is that if you take into account the margin for error you cannot say that we improved.

Looks to me, overall, we are actually worse this year than last.

Good post.....i believe that if a team's ranking at the end of the year is hundreds above its sos (05) and especially if youre ranking is about our sos this year (in the 200's) simply states how much we didnt improve.  Saying that our sos was in the lower 200s this year means, at the very least, finished alittle better in the rankings.  we have not done that in the last few years.

[W0lfman]

I think after the 20 years our basketball program has went through our fans have earned the right to bitch and moan all they want.  Our basketball situation is in shambles and Kayo and crew cant or wont acknowledge that.  Go up and re-read 2X's post once again and let that set in for a moment.  Horrible just horrible.

[2xBison]

no kidding wolf.

after GW, WVU and the top 4 in cusa our schedule was horrible.

after wvu, UCF is our best win....straight out of the Atl Sun....but they are the best team out of cusa's bottom 8.

hell, it took some work to figure out what conference some of those low end teams were in.  for the most part, they were bottom feeders or middle of the pack teams from WEAK leagues.

we lost to a bad ecu team towards the end of the year yet, some see the improvement.  we were a few shots away from an even worse record.  oh well.  i guess losing grows on you.  the thing I like best about it is, no pressure no stress.  i'll bet those mounty fans were nervous wrecks last night and disappointed too....we don't have to go through that thank god.