Topic: How Do We Build a Winning Program?

[Mako]

I'm thinking about this in both football and basketball.  How do we build programs that are consistently good in the transfer portal and NIL era?  Whine all you want about either or both "ruining" college sports but they are both here to stay.  Here's the problem for all mid-majors as I see it.  If you recruit a super talented freshman and don't let him play immediately, he's gone.  He'll transfer somewhere else and you have lost that talent.  If you do let him play immediately, and he does a great job, he'll still transfer as there is no way Marshall can compete with larger programs when it comes to NIL money.  If you could triple your salary, you'd be gone in a heartbeat.  If you try to put together a solid team through the portal, you are essentially having to remake your program every year.  On top of that, team chemistry is vital and there is no guarantee that the folks you recruit from the portal will get along with each other. 

Last, but not least, coaching matters and it matters a lot.  Look at the success Kim Caldwell has had in her first season with the Herd.  She's coaching the same players we've always had but our women's team has never done anything of note.  We have a real shot at going to the NCAA tournament this year and I don't think that has ever happened.  But, of course, if she repeats this success next year, we'll lose her for sure.  Someone will pay her a bunch of money we simply can't afford.  The same thing would happen in football if we could put together something like back to back 10 win seasons with at least appearances in the conference championship game. 

So, what's the recipe for consistent success?  Is it possible or do we just hope for the occasional lucky season?  I'm interested to see what folks think.

[Flat Tire 2]

It is fairly simple, hire good coaches and give them the resources to win. Coaching turnover is good if the coaches are winning.  Just look at the other mid major and G5 conference champions and see how they did it. Are we going to compete with the OSU and UK of the world every year, not really but we can have winning programs.

[wlf]

A lot of coaches are being successful with NIL rules in place.  It all comes down to an ability to recruit talent that will excel in your program, something that we've had no success doing , even with several years participating in the program.

[MicDrass1]

B-ball - low Major d1, high level D2 transfers, best D3, and just a few Hs players if they are going to help right away.  Forget about pro typical size.  Recruit win now players.  We need speed, agility and quickness and protectors of the ball and rim. We need physicality and total change In S&C philosophy.  We need to lift for strength not endurance.  Practices should be for shaping endurance.  Need Good shooters that can create long and mid range.  We need motivating coaches.  Especially at HC

Fball - same but add mid major, P5 transfers and top low Major D1/FCS (Andre Sam).  I would scan D2 portal (Shepherd college has players who could start here).  Recruit win now players.  Huff would win plucking our 1AA players in the past (FCS).


We are not far away bc portal can be lightening progress, but must have head coach who believes in the portal and works it all day everyday.

[MUonium]

i'm talking just basketball for now (imho, there is much less margin for error, at least, in recruiting)-
i think some of the best opportunities concerning getting players is distinctly different from keeping them or losing them.  you have to get them first.  for instance, it's going to take more man power hours than ever just to identify players on major and mid majors who aren't currently getting enough minutes to satisfy their itch.  in other words, getting a jump as legally as possible on potential transfers from any division or source.  this is on top of already spending time identifying HS/players.

the coaches who can rebuild and quickly teach each and every year (if as necessary) will rise to the top.  if you win, your job will likely be easier.  it's dog eat dog like never before.  that's not to say there won't be any programs who can successfully operate by pre-transfer, pre-NIL conditions.

the institution and community will find the money it needs or it won't.  by all known appearances so far, we're not going to outspend our peers, so you need coaches and staff support who are willing to live at the job, or yes, you need more and more money to also pay for things like recruiting services.

one correction to the Ops post-
coach Caldwell did indeed recruit players to add to what she inherited even if it was far from wholesale change.  it's true that any given year, a coach has to mold all these player and philosophy into a well-oiled machine hitting on all cylinders. 

man, there is so much more to be said on this subject, like a books worth!


 

[bighat]

It is money.  Always for everything.

[coalherd]

No use asking that question as far as HERD basketball goes because as long as Danny CLOWNTONI is involved, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!

[herdloyal]

Just maybe our fan culture needs upgrading as well. Huntington and WV have been in a rut for 50 years or more. The only region of growth has been the north part of the state. The next culture is politics that has to change. Charleston is a sham filled with bar members running the show. Marshall only needs a Common Law School not a Bar Law School. This country as we see with the Courts out of their jurisdictions what this administration has been up to hell bent to destroy Americans. We need a vision with integrity no doubt not settling for less than the best. Marshall University has been first in many areas and should be focusing on every family in WV to refocus on our God Given rights!
A focus that on the surface goes deeper in the heart of some of the finest people in America. Rebuilding the character of our People is paramouunt.

[Mako]

i'm talking just basketball for now (imho, there is much less margin for error, at least, in recruiting)-
i think some of the best opportunities concerning getting players is distinctly different from keeping them or losing them.  you have to get them first.  for instance, it's going to take more man power hours than ever just to identify players on major and mid majors who aren't currently getting enough minutes to satisfy their itch.  in other words, getting a jump as legally as possible on potential transfers from any division or source.  this is on top of already spending time identifying HS/players.

the coaches who can rebuild and quickly teach each and every year (if as necessary) will rise to the top.  if you win, your job will likely be easier.  it's dog eat dog like never before.  that's not to say there won't be any programs who can successfully operate by pre-transfer, pre-NIL conditions.

the institution and community will find the money it needs or it won't.  by all known appearances so far, we're not going to outspend our peers, so you need coaches and staff support who are willing to live at the job, or yes, you need more and more money to also pay for things like recruiting services.

one correction to the Ops post-
coach Caldwell did indeed recruit players to add to what she inherited even if it was far from wholesale change.  it's true that any given year, a coach has to mold all these player and philosophy into a well-oiled machine hitting on all cylinders. 

man, there is so much more to be said on this subject, like a books worth!

Your post got me to thinking that, at least in basketball, perhaps the best approach is to simply get the best players you can from the portal while filling in obvious holes, and then adjusting your coaching philosophy each year based on the talent you happen to acquire rather than having a set philosophy and hoping you can attract talent to fit your philosophy.

[MUther]

Your post got me to thinking that, at least in basketball, perhaps the best approach is to simply get the best players you can from the portal while filling in obvious holes, and then adjusting your coaching philosophy each year based on the talent you happen to acquire rather than having a set philosophy and hoping you can attract talent to fit your philosophy.

That requires a flexibility that our mbb coach doesn't have.  That's the main complaint with Dan, imo, is that he is too stubborn and set in his ways to do what it takes.  We want someone younger and more with the times that can exact that very philosophy.

It's like that scene in "We are Marshall" where Lengyl assesses our weaknesses and starts looking for a system that can make them strengths and then they go study up on the veer.  We don't have a coach willing to do that in basketball.  We got a guy that continually pounds square pegs into round holes and can't figure out why it still won't work.

[ThunderValley]

Danny is recruiting players that would not be at a division 1 school if he didn't give them the chance to play at Marshall. That is not what he is paid to do. His job is to recruit the best division 1 talent that he can get whether it's HS or the portal, not to be the good ol boy coach at Marshall's expense. He is paid to coach winning basketball. Do your job or get the hell out.

[herd2win]

Currently Marshall Mens basketball is in the friends and family plan.  We have coaches and players that no other Div 1 team would offer or hire.

[MicDrass1]

I just can?t believe the lack of quality guards and shooters with this roster construction.  And we lack strength.  Zero of it. 

[miltonherdfan]

Currently Marshall Mens basketball is in the friends and family plan.  We have coaches and players that no other Div 1 team would offer or hire.

i'm sure this DD staff is cline's last rodeo, but Williams & Jackson aren't doing their careers any favors by hanging around here under DD.  they both came from other D-I programs, they'd be well-advised to find another, again.

[jdonaccbus]

You have to have a coach that a knowledge and a willingness to recruit in today's modern game. That coach has to have contacts. Most assistant coaches at the Division 1 level are on the bench and continue to learn the game, continue to know how to put players in a proper system, etc. Those things you can learn. But the recruiting aspect is critical.

Arkansas State was in the bottom of the conference last season. The lowest seed if you will. They were 4-14 in conference. The administration there had enough. They fired their coach. The brought in an assistant coach from Alabama who had great recruiting ties. They go 11-7 in conference this past season, get a 4th seed and are now in the conference championship game with a chance to go to the NCAA tournament.

Donnie Jones had a great sense of what is was all about when he came here from Florida. He had the contacts. He had a good reputation. He built a talented roster. He needed a few things more to take us to the next level. Unfortunately he had to deal with a guy named Mike Hamrick who had little to no regard for men's basketball. I think we have it a little different right now with Christian Spears. But we have to take the handcuffs off of him so that we can make the moves that we need to.

Oh, and Donnie last season led Stetson to their first winning season since 2001......22 years. Yesterday he led them to their first ever NCAA tournament bid. He had a baller score 42 points..........it takes talent. As Bobby Bowden use to say, "it ain't about the Xs and Os, it is about the Jimmys and the Joes".

[MUther]

stAte's new coach, with no head coaching experience, has them in the finals with a win over the top seed already.  It's all about the guy in charge, or girl.

[mubowhunter]

Simple answer and that is run some people out of the BOG and hire a real coach

[bbcard1]

I think football is reasonably close. If you look at the construction of this year's QB room, you'll see where Huff seems to be learning. His issue was that he went all-in on Colombi with Fancher as backup and when Colombi went down, Fancher wasn't really ready, though the stats could be made to seem that he was. Last year was supposed to be Fancher's year, but he had only one real variable backup ready, the transfer from Rice, who turned out to be unable to play. We seem to have a little more potential depth with players with experience. One thing that is key is to find players who can contribute at the college level and don't worry that they aren't NFL caliber. Cato, Shuler, Tallifero, Hoskins are good examples. I think we'll be ok. Huff will leave at the end of the season most likely, but find someone with comparable player gathering skills and a little better gameday skills.

Basketball is a mess, probably a rebuild issue, but you can turn a program around with one or two good players and a solid bunch of role players. It can happen pretty quickly with the right person pulling the levers.

[HerdEcon]

Building a winning program is all about the players and coaches.  With coaches jumping ship at the first opportunity and players transferring at the drop of a dime, hiring a good coaching staff and recruiting the best players available is more important than ever.  Unfortunately for Marshall, hiring the best coaches and recruiting the best players in today's world means having the financial resources to do it which is where Marshall has fallen short. 

[FilmJunky]

Hard to build sustained success at Marshall's level IMO with the portal. Just have to recruit your tail off and bring in the best guys you can and hope the staff can get everyone to gel together.

[scuberman]

Ask Kim Caldwell and Coach Grassie. They may have an idea