Topic: Historically BAD Offense Today...

[wvmafia]

First and foremost, I want to take another opportunity to thank the Herd DEFENSE from the bottom of my heart.  I ALSO want to tell them I'm VERY sorry.  They are gonna be put down by many fans who don't know anything about the game and just root for the Kelly Green, for that last drive.  You won't hear any of that from me.  Not in this post or anywhere.  The only thing that we have going for us this year is Defense and some of the Special Teams (not all).

After the game ended, I sat numb in front of the TV and wonder.... "How many times, since we returned to the MAC and became IA, has a Marshall defense allowed their opponent less than 10 points?  Not only that, but what is our record in those games, since we (except for the Snyder years) have been known for offense?  So, I grabbed a pen, paper and a few beers and started to go back thru some old schedules and some stats from previous years and here are some that stand out.

In games we held our opponents under 10 points since 1997, we are 26-1 (that one is today)
Pruett was 15-0
Snyder was 2-0
Doc is 9-1

Since 1997, our offense has been our strength.  This year's team is on pace to be the 2nd worst scoring offense during the same timeframe, not including the Snyder-era --- (all 6 of those seasons are worse) and 7th worst in the last 20 years in their entirety.  This years teams is on pace to score 312 points (need 26 this Saturday).  How does this stack up to other Doc Holliday scoring offenses?

2016 - 317 pts     2015 - 374pts     2014 - 634pts     2013 - 604pts     2012 - 557pts     2011 - 278pts     2010 - 321pts

So, maybe, just maybe, Bill Legg can coach offense when the QB running that offense HAS TALENT.  Bill Legg offenses scored 1795 points in a 3 season period here at MU.  Bill Legg offenses have averaged nearly 450pts a season.  I'm not trying to make it out that I'm in support of keeping Legg, mainly because sometime I think that things get stale and NEW is needed.  But I think we need to look at the signal caller.  Legg's offenses have been pretty prolific over the years, even the ones elsewhere.  WHEN he's had a QB with a head on his shoulders, his offenses have been amongst the best in the NCAA SEVERAL YEARS.

The last stat I'll bring up is passing yards per game.  MU fans have been spoiled with QB's.  In this day and age of HUGE passing yards numbers, you'd think a school that was referred to as QB-U for awhile would be able to put up some big numbers, right?  This year's team is on pace to avg. 230 yards per game.  That ranks as Doc's worst.  This ranks as the worst since 1997 other than 2008, 2006 & 2005.  Guess who the Head Coach was?!?  You guessed it --- Mark Snyder.

This year's offense is HISTORICALLY bad for the Herd.  I know that you cannot remove the Snyder years, but if we did, this would be the worst overall offense we've had since becoming FBS.  Guess what else?  We've done this with what Sagarin says is the 120th (out of 129 teams) WORST schedules in the country and I think we can all agree that this year's CUSA MIGHT BE the worst conference we've EVER played in since the Joan was built at least. Sagarin has this year's schedule as our worst in the history of his rankings that I can find on the internet. Even the worst MAC years, strengthwise, wasn't this weak and while we were a GREAT IAA team, the competitive level in the SoCon was more than this sh*tter.

You can all rant about Bill Legg, and I'm NOT a fan and believe he needs replaced, but the blame needs to go elsewhere.  Legg has a resume, check it out.  We are 2 years removed from scoring 634 points, so we know what good is, these stats were provided to show you BAD.  This offensive line has kept Chase "upright" better than most we've EVER SEEN, so they aren't the problem.  Because of Chase's lack of completions and lack of accuracy BEYOND 10 yards down field, we don't truly know about the WR quality, but I believe that Brady is the best in a pretty competent crew and Yurachek has a resume that says he's pretty damn good.

I said we were the worst 6-1 team in the country and I know believe we are the 4th worst bowl eligible team in the country.  I'm NOT using rankings or stats on that one.  That one is based on the eye test.  I watch the Herd and see a bad team that has a better than usual in Huntington defenses.

Thought?  Someone is gonna defend Chase, please just bring something strong.  He's just not good --- and might be historically bad this year for a team with a winning record.

[goherd24]

Legg was trash from the start. He is trash unless he has an all world  roster that does it in spite of him. He was trash early in Catos career as well, and it was blatantly obvious to anyone who knows football, he has about 5 plays in his "system" and hand off through the A gap is 80% of it.

How on earth you defend, in any capacity, an OC that has proven time and again how inept he is, and dog on a pretty decent QB, is beyond me. Chase took us right down the field after Legg had to abandon his one true love, the A gap handoff.

Legg needs to go. And you would see this offense immediately step up their game next year. A good OC makes the offense work for his players, not forcing the players to try work in his offense.

[herdfan429]

I have to disagree and give hearer some blame for the loss too. We were playing prevent defense and the only thing prevent defense does is prevent you from winning

[MicDrass1]

Offense is broken - should have been changed when Cato left - Leggs time should be up - heater should have attacked there qb on last drive - when our d rushes just three we always fail on the play

[herdfifteen]

I have to disagree and give hearer some blame for the loss too. We were playing prevent defense and the only thing prevent defense does is prevent you from winning

As longtime Browns fan (which means I am a fan of the two worst organizations in sports) I know a prevent defense when I see one, I saw one last night. It is a disservice to players to change what has been successful into something completely different the last minute and a half of a game.

[MU42]

I have to disagree and give hearer some blame for the loss too. We were playing prevent defense and the only thing prevent defense does is prevent you from winning

We gave up 9 points. Something like 10 points below our average.

[herdfan429]

We gave up 9 points. Something like 10 points below our average.

And lost because we played prevent defense on the last possession. Our defense played lights out short of the last 1:30

[lexkyherdfan]

And lost because we played prevent defense on the last possession. Our defense played lights out short of the last 1:30

We also had some missed tackles for loss in the last drive.  How do we know Heater made the calls on defense the last drive?  Could be his boss overriding him. Our defense bailed the offense out all night and spent a lot of time on the field.  Let’s be honest here... the defense should have never been in that position.  We score 7 points and that came at end. Our offensive philosophy cost that game and whether it was BL or his boss controlling I don’t know But i have a feeling it goes beyond the OC.

[MU42]

And lost because we played prevent defense on the last possession. Our defense played lights out short of the last 1:30

Ok, you focus on how bad the D was for 90 seconds and I’ll focus on how bad the O was for 57 min.

[MU42]

We also had some missed tackles for loss in the last drive.  How do we know Heater made the calls on defense the last drive?  Could be his boss overriding him. Our defense bailed the offense out all night and spent a lot of time on the field.  Let’s be honest here... the defense should have never been in that position.  We score 7 points and that came at end. Our offensive philosophy cost that game and whether it was BL or his boss controlling I don’t know But i have a feeling it goes beyond the OC.

Doc and Legg knew that if they controlled field position, time of possession, and won the turnover battle that this game would be and easy win. And it would have. But we lost the ToP battle, lost the field position battle, and lost the turnover battle. So we lose, just like the FIU and FAU games. The way this team is coached, they can’t make even one mistake or we lose. That is a coaching issue.

[THUNDER0645]

That's BULL S$&@ our defense played damn good all game except for one series. Yes Heater should not have went to prevent but this loss is SOLELY on the offense "leggs dumb a$@". Bottom line our defense played great to keep us in the game to win it, our offense ONCE again week in and out let us down.

[biggreenarms]

Defense is notoriously put in a bad position by this offense.

[Herdalum83]

As longtime Browns fan (which means I am a fan of the two worst organizations in sports) I know a prevent defense when I see one, I saw one last night. It is a disservice to players to change what has been successful into something completely different the last minute and a half of a game.

Prevent is acceptable late when you're trying to not to let a team get behind you for a quick score, not when all the team has to do is get a FG. The defense is designed to give up yards but prevent big plays. But UTSA didn't need a big play to win, they just needed 6 or 7 plays to get 40-45 yards. Stupid to go to that only up 1. But, it's hard to blame a defense that only gave up 9 points and didn't allow a TD even when UTSA was given great field position on more than a few drives.

[Herdiowa]

First and foremost, I want to take another opportunity to thank the Herd DEFENSE from the bottom of my heart.  I ALSO want to tell them I'm VERY sorry.  They are gonna be put down by many fans who don't know anything about the game and just root for the Kelly Green, for that last drive.  You won't hear any of that from me.  Not in this post or anywhere.  The only thing that we have going for us this year is Defense and some of the Special Teams (not all).

After the game ended, I sat numb in front of the TV and wonder.... "How many times, since we returned to the MAC and became IA, has a Marshall defense allowed their opponent less than 10 points?  Not only that, but what is our record in those games, since we (except for the Snyder years) have been known for offense?  So, I grabbed a pen, paper and a few beers and started to go back thru some old schedules and some stats from previous years and here are some that stand out.

In games we held our opponents under 10 points since 1997, we are 26-1 (that one is today)
Pruett was 15-0
Snyder was 2-0
Doc is 9-1

Since 1997, our offense has been our strength.  This year's team is on pace to be the 2nd worst scoring offense during the same timeframe, not including the Snyder-era --- (all 6 of those seasons are worse) and 7th worst in the last 20 years in their entirety.  This years teams is on pace to score 312 points (need 26 this Saturday).  How does this stack up to other Doc Holliday scoring offenses?

2016 - 317 pts     2015 - 374pts     2014 - 634pts     2013 - 604pts     2012 - 557pts     2011 - 278pts     2010 - 321pts

So, maybe, just maybe, Bill Legg can coach offense when the QB running that offense HAS TALENT.  Bill Legg offenses scored 1795 points in a 3 season period here at MU.  Bill Legg offenses have averaged nearly 450pts a season.  I'm not trying to make it out that I'm in support of keeping Legg, mainly because sometime I think that things get stale and NEW is needed.  But I think we need to look at the signal caller.  Legg's offenses have been pretty prolific over the years, even the ones elsewhere.  WHEN he's had a QB with a head on his shoulders, his offenses have been amongst the best in the NCAA SEVERAL YEARS.

The last stat I'll bring up is passing yards per game.  MU fans have been spoiled with QB's.  In this day and age of HUGE passing yards numbers, you'd think a school that was referred to as QB-U for awhile would be able to put up some big numbers, right?  This year's team is on pace to avg. 230 yards per game.  That ranks as Doc's worst.  This ranks as the worst since 1997 other than 2008, 2006 & 2005.  Guess who the Head Coach was?!?  You guessed it --- Mark Snyder.

This year's offense is HISTORICALLY bad for the Herd.  I know that you cannot remove the Snyder years, but if we did, this would be the worst overall offense we've had since becoming FBS.  Guess what else?  We've done this with what Sagarin says is the 120th (out of 129 teams) WORST schedules in the country and I think we can all agree that this year's CUSA MIGHT BE the worst conference we've EVER played in since the Joan was built at least. Sagarin has this year's schedule as our worst in the history of his rankings that I can find on the internet. Even the worst MAC years, strengthwise, wasn't this weak and while we were a GREAT IAA team, the competitive level in the SoCon was more than this sh*tter.

You can all rant about Bill Legg, and I'm NOT a fan and believe he needs replaced, but the blame needs to go elsewhere.  Legg has a resume, check it out.  We are 2 years removed from scoring 634 points, so we know what good is, these stats were provided to show you BAD.  This offensive line has kept Chase "upright" better than most we've EVER SEEN, so they aren't the problem.  Because of Chase's lack of completions and lack of accuracy BEYOND 10 yards down field, we don't truly know about the WR quality, but I believe that Brady is the best in a pretty competent crew and Yurachek has a resume that says he's pretty damn good.

I said we were the worst 6-1 team in the country and I know believe we are the 4th worst bowl eligible team in the country.  I'm NOT using rankings or stats on that one.  That one is based on the eye test.  I watch the Herd and see a bad team that has a better than usual in Huntington defenses.

Thought?  Someone is gonna defend Chase, please just bring something strong.  He's just not good --- and might be historically bad this year for a team with a winning record.

The only thing and I mean only thing that saved Legg’s A** here at Marshall is Cato. His ability to improvise and audible out of plays saved us. In Legg’s offense our receivers do not run a route tree they run a route stick. Fly pattern, hook with an occasional out. Pathetic. I’m not saying Chase is greatest QB ever but the coaching he has received while here is brutal. He has been allowed not to improve because he was anointed the day he arrived. Competition is needed at all positions and that does not happen here because of how we recruit. It can be argued out best players are walk ons.

[QuickStrike]

I wouldn't torture myself to go back and check, but can't help but wonder if bad clock management at the end left too much time on the clock for UTSA.  Doc is notorious for bad game management.

[banker]

Wvmafia, you're right, Legg does have a resume but you are looking at it a little off kilter.  His resume is 2010, 2011, 2015, 2016 and 2017. The 2012-2014 period is Cato's resume.  I say this because by simply looking at what it was before he became the leader of the offense, and what it looks like with him gone, you can easily see those are the same.  That means he was the difference.

So if you look at the real resume, Legg has not produced an offense in the top half of FBS, has not produced a team that has averaged 30 PPG, hasn't produced an offense that has won a conference championship and has not produced an offense that has won a division title.   All that regardless of the fact that we play in the second worst conference in FBS.

[MicDrass1]

Holliday has to recognize by now he needs to hire a stud OC to have a better team.  If not he has major major coaching flaws and needs to retire/resign whatever. 

[elginherd]

And lost because we played prevent defense on the last possession. Our defense played lights out short of the last 1:30

I agree. I have to say, though, that the DE's had a couple of chances to sack their QB and missed tackles which would've changed the game. If you notice Heater's 3-man rush is really a 2-man rush & the DE's are good enough to get pressure.The nose hangs around the LOS and watches for a back leaking out & the QB running.

[The E-Man]

The bottom line Mafia is our offense and head coach along with our OC are losing games. You can throw all of the analysis bullsh*t out the window, because the games are being played on the field and witnessed by the human eyes that don't lie! Doc, and Legg both are " pathetic coaches", period!

[herdfifteen]

I agree. I have to say, though, that the DE's had a couple of chances to sack their QB and missed tackles which would've changed the game. If you notice Heater's 3-man rush is really a 2-man rush & the DE's are good enough to get pressure.The nose hangs around the LOS and watches for a back leaking out & the QB running.

True. I do want to make a distinction between the players and Heater, the players were terrific and played a marvelous game, easily well enough to win, it was Heater's plan that lost the game.

[elginherd]

But remember fans, our offense has been this close (index finger & thumb held a 1/2 inch apart) to really busting loose the last 8 weeks.