Topic: WBB Pride Night 2/2/23

[MUsince96]

Being gay isn't an action.  No one "chooses" to be gay.

Reread what I said again. Their feelings aren't a choice. I clearly said that.

Your inability to answer if you'd be cool with themed nights you don't agree with kind of tells me your answer on that.

I'll just leave with this. Disagreement is at the heart of tolerance. What's there to tolerate when you agree with someone? Tolerance is not a celebration of agreement, but rather a peaceful coexistence in the midst of disagreement.

[marshallmark]

Reread what I said again. Their feelings aren't a choice. I clearly said that.

Your inability to answer if you'd be cool with themed nights you don't agree with kind of tells me your answer on that.

I'll just leave with this. Disagreement is at the heart of tolerance. What's there to tolerate when you agree with someone? Tolerance is not a celebration of agreement, but rather a peaceful coexistence in the midst of disagreement.

I didn't answer your question about conservative theme nights because its disingenuous.  I'd have a lot of problems with a pro-guns, or pro-Antifa night because those are inherently political issues or entities that have no business being honored or supported at the university level. 

Being gay, again, isn't political.  Just b/c some may choose not to 'perform those actions' doesn't change that person's gay-ness any more than attending Hillsboro or Liberty changes a black person into something else.  Just b/c you can't see someone's sexual orientation doesn't change who they are at all.

The purpose of Pride days, or flying a rainbow flag at City Hall, or allowing a Pride parade in our communities isn't to force the LGBTQ agenda on anyone.  Its an acknowledgment that LGBTQ people have been oppressed and marginalized for hundreds of years and that, finally, they can see some semblance of acceptance by governmental institutions that have traditionally been the oppressors and marginalizers over the years. 

Again, don't go if it offends you.  But 6.5% of Americans identify as LGBTQ and 71% of Americans support same sex marriage.  They aren't going away.

[2xBison]

Not true.  The discussion started about WBB having a Pride Night.  All of the examples I gave were special "days" that Marshall has had.  If you think that LGBTQ issues are different b/c they're political, or religious, I'd point you to the history of white people dealing with blacks and segregating or oppressing them b/c of politics and religion.  Its no different in substance, just a different time in history.

Who knew LBGQ folks can't vote? Segregated from heterosexuals?  I had no idea.


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[2xBison]

As far as I'm concerned far too many people in this world, and on this board, spend far too much time worrying about what other people do and far too little time worrying about their own actions.

The world would be a far better place if we made sure we were living life the way we think we should and let other people do the same.

But no one is worried about how they live their lives and the only reason it's come up is the "celebration"


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[herdorbust2]

Being gay isn't an action.  No one "chooses" to be gay.

Sure they choose. I want to be a bank robber but I don't do it!!!

[MUther]

As far as I'm concerned far too many people in this world, and on this board, spend far too much time worrying about what other people do and far too little time worrying about their own actions.

The world would be a far better place if we made sure we were living life the way we think we should and let other people do the same.

I told you guys this stuff won't fly in the bible belt.  But it's not really live and let live if they're going to use your money to produce LBGTQ+ events that you have no interest in or are adamantly against supporting.  If you're paying for it you have every right be concerned where you're money is going and withdraw such support if they do something you don't feel is moral or ethical.  I don't care either way, but I can understand that side of it.

What if they celebrated it by having a drag queen burlesque on the basketball court at halftime with kids in attendance?  Would it then be ok to be concerned about what other people are doing?  Not very far-fetched as they have this in public parades and other children attended events, nationwide.  I don't know where the line should be but I know there should be one.

[marshallmark]

Sure they choose. I want to be a bank robber but I don't do it!!!

Dear Lord, do you really believe that they are the same?  Did you decide at 12 or so that you were attracted to the opposite sex?  Of course not, and neither do LGBTQ people. 

[herdorbust2]

Dear Lord, do you really believe that they are the same?  Did you decide at 12 or so that you were attracted to the opposite sex?  Of course not, and neither do LGBTQ people.

Even if you are, you fight it. It's a disgusting sin!!! Pure and simple!!

[marshallmark]

Even if you are, you fight it. It's a disgusting sin!!! Pure and simple!!

Spewing hate like this is more of a sin than being the way God created a person will ever be.

[miltonherdfan]

Spewing hate like this is more of a sin than being the way God created a person will ever be.

you are way out of your league.  genetic?  "spewing hate"?  degrees of sin?  adam & steve?  what else can you enlighten us on?

[miltonherdfan]

think they'll try this at 1 of the remaining men's games??

apparently so, per a post on the main board by WHF

[marshallmark]

I?m a moderate student of the Bible - started at a Christian college before transferring back to MU. Brought up as a Methodist and, as such, we were encouraged to study Scriptures without preconceptions.

You know what I found? Jesus said absolutely nothing about same sex relationships.  Nothing.  The ONLY reference to gay activity as a sin is from Paul but if you read the section in context, and with historical context, he?s condemning the Roman practice of abuse of young slave boys.  He?s NOT criticizing open same sex relationships b/c they wouldn?t have existed then.  There were, of course, LGBTQ individuals but open, loving, committed relationships would have been persecuted.  Read history.  Don?t watch FoxNews (or MSNBC). Think for yourself. Be kind. Leave people alone. It?s not difficult.?

[herdorbust2]

I think everyone should be welcome regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, or religion. And that's how it already is. You don't need a night that essentially celebrates who people want to rub genitals with. Imagine how weird it would sound if they marketed it like that?

What's next? A BLM night? What about Right to Life? Right to Choose? How about a Second Amendment night? Christian night? Can't forget the Muslim night. Throw in a Jewish night too.

Not to mention the awkward position you put your student athletes in who don't agree on the issues you decide to make themed nights.

Trying to cater to the blue side or the red side is just so self destructive when you're trying to make green ($)

Very well said. It's because they feel a need to force it in you. I have no problem if they come to Ames or whatever. But don't tell me I have to support a night that they are pushing this crap. Because I won't and there will be many more stay home also.

[herdorbust2]

Spewing hate like this is more of a sin than being the way God created a person will ever be.

Better read your Bible buddy because even God says it's a sin. And hate? I don't hate THEM at all. But I do hate their sick and twisted lifestyle!!!

[marshallmark]

Better read your Bible buddy because even God says it's a sin. And hate? I don't hate THEM at all. But I do hate their sick and twisted lifestyle!!!

Where?  You show me where God says being gay is a sin, and don't pull out quotes from the Old Testament b/c you and I both know that there is a LOT of stuff in the OT that wouldn't be considered a sin today in a modern society. 

[herdorbust2]

Where?  You show me where God says being gay is a sin, and don't pull out quotes from the Old Testament b/c you and I both know that there is a LOT of stuff in the OT that wouldn't be considered a sin today in a modern society.

Spell check and I fixed. God!!!

[marshallmark]

Spell check and I fixed. God!!!

Yeah... figured that.  I changed my message as well. 

[herdorbust2]

Where?  You show me where God says being gay is a sin, and don't pull out quotes from the Old Testament b/c you and I both know that there is a LOT of stuff in the OT that wouldn't be considered a sin today in a modern society.

The Bible was out here for our road map. It has a purpose or it wouldn't have been written the way it was. On one hand people like you think we have this oh powerful God but then don't think the Bible was written exactly the way he intended. People like you say Leviticus was written because of what people in those days were worried about like carrying on family lineage and men taking and stance of young boys etc,,, do you think the worries are any different today? Let me ask you this? If everyone was gay then how would mankind exist? Just another truth twister to fit their sick ideas!!

[marshallmark]

So... its ok to ditch some of the sins listed in Leviticus or other books of the Old Testament, but not the ones that offend you.  Do I have that right? 

[herdorbust2]

So... its ok to ditch some of the sins listed in Leviticus or other books of the Old Testament, but not the ones that offend you.  Do I have that right?

Well tell me what you are talking about? And I think anyone knows what sin is if they are truthful. And tell me again how mankind can survive if everyone is gay?

[marshallmark]

Well tell me what you are talking about? And I think anyone knows what sin is if they are truthful. And tell me again how mankind can survive if everyone is gay?

Initially, no one is advocating for everyone to be gay.  There's something in an LGBTQ person's persona, or brain chemistry, or genetics that tells that person to be attracted to someone of the same sex.  That doesn't harm anyone and if people would just leave them alone - or treat them with dignity and equality - we'd all be in a much more pleasant world. 

I'm not saying that we're allowed to pick and choose which Commandments we follow, or which teachings of Jesus we should agree with; however, I AM saying we should be conscious of the times and contexts of the people that were writing the Bible, especially the Old Testament, and be cognizant that the writers lived thousands of years ago with limited resources, education and understanding.   

The Bible sanctions slavery, but both the Old and New Testament condemn divorce.  According to James, I'm not allowed to swear to tell the truth in court, or to swear allegiance to the Constitution.  Timothy commands that women should be "quiet" and should not teach or have authority over men.  And Leviticus lists all sorts of "sins" that we don't agree with today.  Here's a list it took me all of 3 minutes to find:

1.       Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11)
2.       Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13)
3.       Eating fat (3:17)
4.       Eating blood (3:17)
5.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you?ve witnessed (5:1)
6.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you?ve been told about (5:1)
7.       Touching an unclean animal (5:2)
8.       Carelessly making an oath (5:4)
9.       Deceiving a neighbor about something trusted to them (6:2)
10.   Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3)
11.   Bringing unauthorized fire before God (10:1)
12.   Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6)
13.   Tearing your clothes (10:6)
14.   Drinking alcohol in holy places  (10:9)
15.   Eating an animal which doesn?t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7)
16.   Touching the carcass of any of the above (11:8)
17.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12)
18.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19)
19.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22)
20.   Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27) 
21.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29)
22.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42)
23.   Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4)
24.   Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5)
25.   Having sex with your mother (18:7) [The penalty for all the sexual sins in ch. 18 is that the participants are to be ?cut off? from their people. Some have additional penalties mentioned below.]
26.   Having sex with your father?s wife (18:8)
27.   Having sex with your sister (18:9)
28.   Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)
29.   Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)
30.   Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13
31.   Having sex with your uncle?s wife (18:14)
32.   Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15)
33.   Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16)
34.   Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (bad news for Alan Clark) (18:17)
35.   Marrying your wife?s sister while your wife still lives
36.   Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19)
37.   Having sex with your neighbour?s wife (18:20)
38.   Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21)
39.   Having sex with a man ?as one does with a woman? (18:22)
40.   Having sex with an animal (18:23)
41.   Making idols or ?metal gods? (19:4)
42.   Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9)
43.   Picking up grapes that have fallen in your  vineyard (19:10)
44.   Stealing (19:11)
45.   Lying (19:11)
46.   Swearing falsely on God?s name (19:12)
47.   Defrauding your neighbor (19:13)
48.   Holding back the wages of an employee overnight
49.   Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14)
50.   Perverting justice, showing partiality to either the poor or the rich (19:15)
51.   Spreading slander (19:16)
52.   Doing anything to endanger a neighbor's life (19:16)
53.   Seeking revenge or bearing a grudge (19:18)
54.   Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19)
55.   Cross-breeding animals (19:19)
56.   Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19)
57.   Sleeping with another man?s slave (19:20)
58.   Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23)
59.   Practicing divination or seeking omens  (19:26)
60.   Trimming your beard (19:27)
61.   Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27)
62.   Getting tattoos (19:28)
63.   Making your daughter prostitute herself (19:29)
64.   Turning to mediums or spiritualists (19:31)
65.   Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32)
66.   Mistreating foreigners ? (19:33-34)
67.   Using dishonest weights and scales (19:35-36)
68.   Cursing your father or mother  (20:9)
69.   Marrying a prostitute, divorcee or widow if you are a priest (21:7,13)
70.   Entering a place where there?s a dead body as a priest (21:11)
71.   Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28)
72.   Working on the Sabbath (23:3)
73.   Blasphemy  (24:14)
74.   Inflicting an injury; killing someone else?s animal; killing a person must be punished in kind (24:17-22)
75.   Selling land permanently (25:23)
76.   Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42)

[bighat]

You are to love the sinner and hate the sin.

[marshallmark]

You are to love the sinner and hate the sin.

You are also prohibited from judging. 

[herdorbust2]

Initially, no one is advocating for everyone to be gay.  There's something in an LGBTQ person's persona, or brain chemistry, or genetics that tells that person to be attracted to someone of the same sex.  That doesn't harm anyone and if people would just leave them alone - or treat them with dignity and equality - we'd all be in a much more pleasant world. 

I'm not saying that we're allowed to pick and choose which Commandments we follow, or which teachings of Jesus we should agree with; however, I AM saying we should be conscious of the times and contexts of the people that were writing the Bible, especially the Old Testament, and be cognizant that the writers lived thousands of years ago with limited resources, education and understanding.   

The Bible sanctions slavery, but both the Old and New Testament condemn divorce.  According to James, I'm not allowed to swear to tell the truth in court, or to swear allegiance to the Constitution.  Timothy commands that women should be "quiet" and should not teach or have authority over men.  And Leviticus lists all sorts of "sins" that we don't agree with today.  Here's a list it took me all of 3 minutes to find:

1.       Burning any yeast or honey in offerings to God (2:11)
2.       Failing to include salt in offerings to God (2:13)
3.       Eating fat (3:17)
4.       Eating blood (3:17)
5.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you?ve witnessed (5:1)
6.       Failing to testify against any wrongdoing you?ve been told about (5:1)
7.       Touching an unclean animal (5:2)
8.       Carelessly making an oath (5:4)
9.       Deceiving a neighbor about something trusted to them (6:2)
10.   Finding lost property and lying about it (6:3)
11.   Bringing unauthorized fire before God (10:1)
12.   Letting your hair become unkempt (10:6)
13.   Tearing your clothes (10:6)
14.   Drinking alcohol in holy places  (10:9)
15.   Eating an animal which doesn?t both chew cud and has a divided hoof (cf: camel, rabbit, pig) (11:4-7)
16.   Touching the carcass of any of the above (11:8)
17.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? any seafood without fins or scales (11:10-12)
18.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (11:13-19)
19.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? flying insects with four legs, unless those legs are jointed (11:20-22)
20.   Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (good news for cats) (11:27) 
21.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,the gecko, the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink and the chameleon (11:29)
22.   Eating ? or touching the carcass of ? any creature which crawls on many legs, or its belly (11:41-42)
23.   Going to church within 33 days after giving birth to a boy (12:4)
24.   Going to church within 66 days after giving birth to a girl (12:5)
25.   Having sex with your mother (18:7) [The penalty for all the sexual sins in ch. 18 is that the participants are to be ?cut off? from their people. Some have additional penalties mentioned below.]
26.   Having sex with your father?s wife (18:8)
27.   Having sex with your sister (18:9)
28.   Having sex with your granddaughter (18:10)
29.   Having sex with your half-sister (18:11)
30.   Having sex with your biological aunt (18:12-13
31.   Having sex with your uncle?s wife (18:14)
32.   Having sex with your daughter-in-law (18:15)
33.   Having sex with your sister-in-law (18:16)
34.   Having sex with a woman and also having sex with her daughter or granddaughter (bad news for Alan Clark) (18:17)
35.   Marrying your wife?s sister while your wife still lives
36.   Having sex with a woman during her period (18:19)
37.   Having sex with your neighbour?s wife (18:20)
38.   Giving your children to be sacrificed to Molek (18:21)
39.   Having sex with a man ?as one does with a woman? (18:22)
40.   Having sex with an animal (18:23)
41.   Making idols or ?metal gods? (19:4)
42.   Reaping to the very edges of a field (19:9)
43.   Picking up grapes that have fallen in your  vineyard (19:10)
44.   Stealing (19:11)
45.   Lying (19:11)
46.   Swearing falsely on God?s name (19:12)
47.   Defrauding your neighbor (19:13)
48.   Holding back the wages of an employee overnight
49.   Cursing the deaf or abusing the blind (19:14)
50.   Perverting justice, showing partiality to either the poor or the rich (19:15)
51.   Spreading slander (19:16)
52.   Doing anything to endanger a neighbor's life (19:16)
53.   Seeking revenge or bearing a grudge (19:18)
54.   Mixing fabrics in clothing (19:19)
55.   Cross-breeding animals (19:19)
56.   Planting different seeds in the same field (19:19)
57.   Sleeping with another man?s slave (19:20)
58.   Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23)
59.   Practicing divination or seeking omens  (19:26)
60.   Trimming your beard (19:27)
61.   Cutting your hair at the sides (19:27)
62.   Getting tattoos (19:28)
63.   Making your daughter prostitute herself (19:29)
64.   Turning to mediums or spiritualists (19:31)
65.   Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32)
66.   Mistreating foreigners ? (19:33-34)
67.   Using dishonest weights and scales (19:35-36)
68.   Cursing your father or mother  (20:9)
69.   Marrying a prostitute, divorcee or widow if you are a priest (21:7,13)
70.   Entering a place where there?s a dead body as a priest (21:11)
71.   Slaughtering a cow/sheep and its young on the same day (22:28)
72.   Working on the Sabbath (23:3)
73.   Blasphemy  (24:14)
74.   Inflicting an injury; killing someone else?s animal; killing a person must be punished in kind (24:17-22)
75.   Selling land permanently (25:23)
76.   Selling an Israelite as a slave (foreigners are fine) (25:42)

Nature alone tells you it's a sin. They can't reproduce. And what if that brain chemistry steers them to little boys or girls? How can they help that? Or they are wanting to be with animals? I mean they cant help it according to you.

[Big City]

Wow