Topic: 4 Star Safety Doesn't Return

[Big City]

There are a lot of other names on this list as well. ugh


https://twitter.com/herdfansinfo/status/890895503843618816

[THECHAMPISHERE]

There are a lot of other names on this list as well. ugh


https://twitter.com/herdfansinfo/status/890895503843618816

Again forget the recruiting rankings that are done in the moment. We've been at the bottom of CUSA for 7 years in recruiting when you factor in the HIGH RISK TOP PROSPECTS who never make it. It would be different if we lost some random recruits as every school does. But Doc loses half of his top 6 or 7 each year. That is not only a killer for the program, but instantly moves those classes to the bottom half of CUSA.

[IM4DHERD]

I can see a talent like that, and the Texas QB, not wanting to sit a year and taking a chance at regaining P5 offers at JUCO.

We always see some who don't show, or leave, but we also usually see some surprises.  Anyone show up we didn't know about?

[NerdHaitian]

My fear is this isn't just a temporary issue with Doc Holliday's approach, but a change in the landscape of college football.  Anecdotally, it seems like fewer players are choosing the Prop-to-G5 path, and instead go the JUCO-to-P5 route.  That would not bode well for the quality of teams Marshall fields (or faces in C-USA, for that matter).

One thing is for sure: the effects of the P5/G5 split are on-going.

[svherd]

Another NQ bites the dust. But lets keep doing what we're doing and continue a 45% attrition rate on our recruiting classes.

[svherd]

My fear is this isn't just a temporary issue with Doc Holliday's approach, but a change in the landscape of college football.  Anecdotally, it seems like fewer players are choosing the Prop-to-G5 path, and instead go the JUCO-to-P5 route.  That would not bode well for the quality of teams Marshall fields (or faces in C-USA, for that matter).

One thing is for sure: the effects of the P5/G5 split are on-going.

No other football program in America relies more on props than we do.

[MUther]

Find kids with some talent or a glimmer of hope at a different position and coach them up.  Make them great.  Seems like we used to do that around here.

[BHFIOHIO]

Jaquan Yulee..Alabama offeree took the field yesterday after prop yr. Ditto D Owens, Larry Aaron, Ty King. Hard to believe that rank amateurs think they can advise Doc on recruiting. LOL

[svherd]

Jaquan Yulee..Alabama offeree took the field yesterday after prop yr. Ditto D Owens, Larry Aaron, Ty King. Hard to believe that rank amateurs think they can advise Doc on recruiting. LOL

When you go 3-9 in year 7, questions pop up. Don't follow blindly.

[QuickStrike]

When you go 3-9 in year 7, questions pop up. Don't follow blindly.

Also, after 7 years and 3-9 last season when you keep saying "how young" we are......that is a red flag.

[MUonium]

Again forget the recruiting rankings that are done in the moment. We've been at the bottom of CUSA for 7 years in recruiting when you factor in the HIGH RISK TOP PROSPECTS who never make it. It would be different if we lost some random recruits as every school does. But Doc loses half of his top 6 or 7 each year. That is not only a killer for the program, but instantly moves those classes to the bottom half of CUSA.

be interesting to see detailed data on all CUSA to back up your premise.  on the field, during that span, we held our own over most of CUSA in specific areas.  what i mean is that certain players excelled so give credit to them/staff where due.  one example would be kick offs/special teams.  absolutely no argument, the current/recent staff could have done/could do a better job recruiting, extrapolating potential and developing players regardless if they are Qs or NQ but i think the data would show that we're not at the bottom of CUSA

[BHFIOHIO]

33 in three yrs gets him respect from lots of fans. 3 outa 4 will get you 25 mil a yr in baseball

[svherd]

33 in three yrs gets him respect from lots of fans. 3 outa 4 will get you 25 mil a yr in baseball

I like Doc and appreciate his efforts. Never said once that I want him fired. But we are the same as any other fan base, we want results on a consistent basis. Fans are asked to support the program, buy tix, give more (we have) and trust the process. Unfortunately 2016 was a dumpster fire that is hard to erase from our memories. Hell, I hope we win 9-10 games this year, everyone does. That said, I quit drinking the kool aid years ago but that doesn't mean I quit supporting the school, program or want people fired.

[davidnewsome71]

How many didn't show?

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[NerdHaitian]

We signed 19, and 13 made it to campus.  Based on our attrition rates in past years, three will transfer out, four won't crack the two deep until their senior year, and six will be contributors to the team.  We'll get one of our three props back next year, but that makes just seven out of a possible 25 signees.

Then when we play freaking Old Dominion and Charlotte and their 25 seniors, regardless of how good those players are, we lose. 

[davidnewsome71]

Yep u right!

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[coalherd]

I like Doc and appreciate his efforts. Never said once that I want him fired. But we are the same as any other fan base, we want results on a consistent basis. Fans are asked to support the program, buy tix, give more (we have) and trust the process. Unfortunately 2016 was a dumpster fire that is hard to erase from our memories. Hell, I hope we win 9-10 games this year, everyone does. That said, I quit drinking the kool aid years ago but that doesn't mean I quit supporting the school, program or want people fired.

Well said, svherd.  Believe you have stated a position that a lot of us hold.

[BHFIOHIO]

We signed 19, and 13 made it to campus.  Based on our attrition rates in past years, three will transfer out, four won't crack the two deep until their senior year, and six will be contributors to the team.  We'll get one of our three props back next year, but that makes just seven out of a possible 25 signees.

Then when we play freaking Old Dominion and Charlotte and their 25 seniors, regardless of how good those players are, we lose.

13 signees true.........PLUS Aaron, Yulee, King, Owens ..NQS...and ..Tyree, Young, Hoxie etc transfers and many WOs. Prob 30 new players

[Apollo]

30 new players...

What about that don't you understand that that's the problem? A coach in his 8th year should not have to bring in 30 new guys unless attrition is a terrible problem. At most you should see 18 or so new faces each year if you aren't taking huge risks on props or too many JUCOs. Our biggest problem is that we can't develop the guys we do retain and they never make a huge contribution. It's the Herrion Complex. Great talent coming in that regresses the whole time they're here because we don't have enough teachers on the staff.

[BHFIOHIO]

What is it you don't understand about Cato, Shuler and Gator coming in in a two yr period and 33 wins in 3 yrs and the fact that he has recruited some big names for the qu-eers, Florida and NC St  over a period of 30 yrs?

[Apollo]

What is it you don't understand about Cato, Shuler and Gator coming in in a two yr period and 33 wins in 3 yrs and the fact that he has recruited some big names for the qu-eers, Florida and NC St  over a period of 30 yrs?

That doesn't even make any sense with regard to your original argument, lol. Like talkin to a wall with some of you guys. That 33 wins in 3 years argument is like Al Bundy braggin bout Polk High glory days. Cato, Shu and Gator are gone, and so are those wins. But I wasn't even talkin bout records, I was talking bout the attrition. Reading comprehension skills man, come on. If you're going to debate at least understand what the debate is about before spoutin off about stuff you aren't even understanding. 

[BHFIOHIO]

you're a good herd fan when everything is good but a piss poor herd fan when things don't work out so well. That is a textbook def of a band wagon fan.

[Apollo]

you're a good herd fan when everything is good but a piss poor herd fan when things don't work out so well. That is a textbook def of a band wagon fan.

So if you question anything that is wrong with the program and don't blindly follow every dumb decision and act like its golden, you're a bandwagon fan? If that's what you think bandwagon is, I'd rather be that than a sheep. You know nothing about me, don't know the definition of bandwagon, don't know much about football either. Stop embarrassing yourself. I go to every game and have been to every game since I was a freshman. Sat in monsoon cold rain for Snyder's debacles, sat in rain for John's early debacles too. Sat for every dumpster fire last year. How many times do you "real fans" have to be told? Guys like me and E and svherd, among others, we want and hope to win every game. We support the program regardless of what we think is being done wrong. We're allowed to have opinions in this country last I checked. Thats the problem with this fanbase and this country as a whole. Too many follow blindly like sheep and never question any move or decision. So if that makes me bandwagon you take that wagon and shove it up your ass. So sick of people like you that think because we don't follow blindly like you sheeple do, we're bad fans or bad people, or bad citizens. You clearly have no clue and I'm done trying to have intelligent conversations with you people.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

33 in three yrs gets him respect from lots of fans. 3 outa 4 will get you 25 mil a yr in baseball

It's all relative. Since you used the baseball analogy...those wins would be like a Major League bench player (maybe good for .230 and 5 home runs a year) dropping down to play mid level college baseball for 3 seasons (and hitting .320 and 30 Hr's a year). When he gets back to the majors he isn't all of the sudden an All-Star. He'll go back to the bench, .230, and 5 home runs. Kinda like Doc's first three years...and last year after he recruited us below our peers.

We got to play I-AA football for 3 years guys. That's why there wasn't an AD in the country who bit on that 33 in 3. Only a few of our fans are fooled by the 10 win seasons...literally NO ONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY took the bait.

[svherd]

you're a good herd fan when everything is good but a piss poor herd fan when things don't work out so well. That is a textbook def of a band wagon fan.

I love it when people start playing the better fan card. It's a message board BH, people are going to differ on opinions. Accept that and you'll feel better sir.