Topic: Goodman: D'antoni Out, Corny In

[bighat]

Downgrading your school and not funding its programs does not help no matter what you say.  It is alright to criticize coaches but cutting attendance and funding is downright wrong.

[Always THE HERD]

I have moved on, and while I appreciate the love, Jon would definitely be the better coach! Hope Corny will bring him in and let Jon help him rebuild it to the heights he helped elevate the program to.

Sir, I do not know you. I did find it interesting that you used the words "help him rebuild it". Should I read into that comment that you felt something had gone wrong from when you and your brother were here?

[whf]

Last post I?ll make and I promise I?m not calling you out individually. But the hatred for Dan and the fans threatening to give up season tickets is not cool. This is from a former players perspective, that?s tough to see from anyone. And definitely would only hinder the program and not help. Coach Dan had it right when he said you should support the school, win or lose. It?s Marshall and should be the place we love. And trust me I know this board wants to win and is tough. Probably too tough. Heck I?ve checked in here and get maligned for my coaching decisions of herd that from time to time and how I could be doing better. And that?s something I do every summer with Jon just because our love for the school and wanting to represent it well. Even been maligned for announcing the games and I just do that because Marshall asked me to. I have a day job and have no desire to be an announcer. Moral of the story, I hope fans realize prospective players see this board, players do , former players, etc. I?m going to support win or lose.
 You should be Asking not what the team can / should be doing for you, but what you could be doing for the team -ot Elmore

Ot, I highly appreciate your perspective and have told you personally how glad I am you've joined the broadcast team.  Many of the things you write in support of DD are in fact the things that caused his demise. Just like you decided to mover forward with a career suiting your talents and delivering your desires, you had to learn new things and apply them in today's environment.  Unfortunately, due to no fault of anyone on this board, DD kept trying to fit a square peg (the past) ildnto a round hole (the present).  No one can be blamed for that expect him.  Now whether he could adapt is another situation that only he and a few very close friends and family will/could ever know.  Maybe, and perhaps, the new way of doing things wasn't just undesired, maybe it was a difficult challenge defrayed due to its difficulty. We will never know; but the fans didn't turn on DD, he kind of turned on the university when he didn't do all he could have and shou have to win basketball games.  I'm confident he is a great teacher, not so confident of his Head Coaching capabilities in today's world.  I'm in my 70s and can tell you the reason I still have some "clients" is because I adopted and adapted to their world. I did not try to bend them into my old world.  You coach with Herd That, you well know that what you might have done 10 years ago isn't effective today.  And as much as we did, and still do, love DD as a person and huge son of Marshall, no one gets to manufacture a false environment in which they feel they can succeed.  Again, thanks for reading this without prejudice.

[parshall2marshall]

I just want a coach that can muster the knowledge and resources to defeat the odd high-major from time to time. Not afraid to rock the boat and not just stand there with a warm smile and handshake, yukking it up with the opposing coach after a record-setting 118-82 beatdown.

[Otelmore]

Sir, I do not know you. I did find it interesting that you used the words "help him rebuild it". Should I read into that comment that you felt something had gone wrong from when you and your brother were here?

Gone wrong? No. Has athletics changed with nil, portal, etc? Yes. The results you know the last few years aren?t what anyone wanted. But you know who it probably bothered more than this board? That would be Dan. I?ll never say a bad word about him and respect the way he did everything. There is a reason there is a herd that. There is a reason Jon would want to come back to be an assistant, why Ryan Taylor is on staff, why Steve browning and Milan were both GAs, why Justin Edmonds is a ga, why I came back to be an announcer.  Dan ran a first class program. To me, that?s more important than wins and losses. Both are important but I know which one I value more.

[chris88]

Downgrading your school and not funding its programs does not help no matter what you say.  It is alright to criticize coaches but cutting attendance and funding is downright wrong.

Who gets to decide it is wrong? People earn their money and get the right to decide how to spend it. MU sports is entertainment and some degree of pride. When the entertainment factor drops below the value of the time, energy, and money that go into it than some people will decide to stop going and spend money elsewhere. Many of those who consider dropping tickets/cut funding have vowed to support other sports at Marshall.  Many of these people have supported multiple sports for decades. They, and they alone, can decide when is the right time to stop or reduce funding as they see fit. Some say doing so "is not helpful". Helpful to what end? To those who, in effect, say just keep your tickets, write your check, and shut up I would respond by saying you must not work hard enough to appreciate the fruits of your labor.

The DD as a coach has been pretty well hashed out and everyone ie entitled to their opinion from their own perspective. Personally, I don't think it is too much to ask to hire a coach who is willing to put in the time and effort to make Marshall a top 100 basketball program. That starts with recruiting and scheduling. It's apparent to most that DD had very little interest in doing either one. That started way before Nils and portals came along. That's just fact. BTW, how much did DD support the program "financially" before he became HC? Of course when he is making mid-high six figures as the HC his posture is going to be what it is on supporting the program.  What will he do now to enhance the program and university financially and otherwise? That will be telling imo. Most everyone on here has given him due credit for what he did when he took over. The good time memories will last a lifetime.  To most who have looked at it objectively, it was past time to move on. I wish Dan nothing but the best and hope he is a constant presence around the arena when the Herd takes the court next season and beyond.

[parshall2marshall]

Gone wrong? No. Has athletics changed with nil, portal, etc? Yes. The results you know the last few years aren?t what anyone wanted. But you know who it probably bothered more than this board? That would be Dan. I?ll never say a bad word about him and respect the way he did everything. There is a reason there is a herd that. There is a reason Jon would want to come back to be an assistant, why Ryan Taylor is on staff, why Steve browning and Milan were both GAs, why Justin Edmonds is a ga, why I came back to be an announcer.  Dan ran a first class program. To me, that?s more important than wins and losses. Both are important but I know which one I value more.

That's nice and all but gotta find a middle ground there. When a program needs athletically gifted guys that have to be chained to the bench, sure there are going to be problems from time to time. What the Board doesn't want - if I may be so bold - is a bunch of choir boys that exude class but the W-L record sinks to the bottom of a very mediocre conference. 

[Refiners]

While I am old enough to remember Dan playing for Marshall and he was a really good player, I was concerned when he got the coaching position here. I hoped he was successful and supported him for a long time when others had called him out. I?m not certain that he ever recruited to the level necessary and he did catch lightning in a bottle for a couple weeks and made us all proud. I also believe he has a love for Marshall, but it was past time to move on to try someone new. Ot, I agree that he ran a quality program from a player?s perspective and instilled player loyalty within many players, however from a fan?s perspective wins and losses are in fact the most important stat that matters in the end. As with any job, performance always trumps personality. Hopefully, Dan continues to be a part of Herd basketball.

[herdfan129]

Last post I?ll make and I promise I?m not calling you out individually. But the hatred for Dan and the fans threatening to give up season tickets is not cool. This is from a former players perspective, that?s tough to see from anyone. And definitely would only hinder the program and not help. Coach Dan had it right when he said you should support the school, win or lose. It?s Marshall and should be the place we love. And trust me I know this board wants to win and is tough. Probably too tough. Heck I?ve checked in here and get maligned for my coaching decisions of herd that from time to time and how I could be doing better. And that?s something I do every summer with Jon just because our love for the school and wanting to represent it well. Even been maligned for announcing the games and I just do that because Marshall asked me to. I have a day job and have no desire to be an announcer. Moral of the story, I hope fans realize prospective players see this board, players do , former players, etc. I?m going to support win or lose.
 You should be Asking not what the team can / should be doing for you, but what you could be doing for the team -ot Elmore

I?m not a Marshall alum. I owe NOTHING to this school. I watch for entertainment, and I was completely finished with Marshall basketball if DD came back.

He?s a great guy, but in the current climate of college sports, he?s a TERRIBLE coach.

I don?t care if that bothers players or not. Players are no longer ?amateurs? getting a scholarship to represent their school/community. They are now the same as professionals and they will be treated as such.

Sad that our coach was so bad he had to try and guilt people in to supporting the program.

Having said all of that, I think had we hired DD in early 2000s after Greg White, I think he would have been a great coach for us with his culture/program building mentality. Just not realistic to keep someone as stubborn as him in todays game and expect fans to blindly support the program.

[herdfan129]

Also Ot, I think what you all have done with Herd That actually proves our point. You all do a great job recruiting players who fit this system. I watch Herd That and just dream of a Marshall team who runs our style but has the horses to do it.

Herd That is the only positive thing about Marshall basketball the last few years.

[herdinphilly]

If this is true, we just got worse. Time to quit being bush league amd make a hire to get better. Corny wont put a single person more in the stands than we have now, and recruiting not as good as it is now. Major step backwards.

From what I read here, I thought it couldn't get any worse than Dan?

[herdorbust2]

Last post I?ll make and I promise I?m not calling you out individually. But the hatred for Dan and the fans threatening to give up season tickets is not cool. This is from a former players perspective, that?s tough to see from anyone. And definitely would only hinder the program and not help. Coach Dan had it right when he said you should support the school, win or lose. It?s Marshall and should be the place we love. And trust me I know this board wants to win and is tough. Probably too tough. Heck I?ve checked in here and get maligned for my coaching decisions of herd that from time to time and how I could be doing better. And that?s something I do every summer with Jon just because our love for the school and wanting to represent it well. Even been maligned for announcing the games and I just do that because Marshall asked me to. I have a day job and have no desire to be an announcer. Moral of the story, I hope fans realize prospective players see this board, players do , former players, etc. I?m going to support win or lose.
 You should be Asking not what the team can / should be doing for you, but what you could be doing for the team -ot Elmore

Listen, I respect you and Jon a lot. But that is a very bad take imo. First these players are now able to get money and lots of it in some cases. They can now pull up and leave anytime they want. They need to have thicker skin since they are Alan's and have all this freedom now and loyalty is a thing of the past. And I don't think anyone hates Danny as a person. I know I don't and was a huge fan of his and attended lots of practices and had season tickets for decades. But when a coach won't get out of his own way and do what is best for the schools sport that you have loved for more than 50 years then enough is enough.

Do you really think letting guys sit at the end of the bench for 4-5 years that can't contribute is helping the program? And letting guys RS while Marshall is footing the bill, knowing they are using it to transfer is pathetic. Then on top of that, to shame the fanbase in press conferences is disgusting when you are losing seven in a row and not making any adjustments at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I hate that it ended like this for him. But he brought every single bit of this on himself with his awful roster management and hard headed ways. I really hope Corny does well. I know recruiting will be better. Whether he is ready to lead a program and actually coach on game days is yet to be seen. But I hope we can stop hearing it shouldn't matter if we win or lose but just be a good little fan and show up. Have expectations and change the culture from the yuck yuck yuck and folded arms on game day.

[Otelmore]

I could be wrong, like I said just my take. Being in the program that?s how I feel. Right, wrong, who knows. Some had just asked my perspective

In regards to those bench guys, I admire the loyalty. Who knows one might end up starting Herd That or come back and be an announcer for the broadcasts.

[herdorbust2]

I could be wrong, like I said just my take. Being in the program that?s how I feel. Right, wrong, who knows. Some had just asked my perspective

In regards to those bench guys, I admire the loyalty. Who knows one might end up starting Herd That or come back and be an announcer for the broadcasts.

Well if it's all about loyalty then let's just take some of the basketball money and transfer to football or soccer or woman's basketball. Let's at least try and win at something. I guess the basketball motto should be "we play for loyalty and hope the guys come back" instead of winning championships? I hope the administration doesn't have this view because they will start losing a lot of the fanbase. But personally I don't think Corny will have the approach of letting guys sit for 4-5 years like Danny that can't produce. Matter of fact I know he won't.

[MidlandKnight]

I could be wrong, like I said just my take. Being in the program that?s how I feel. Right, wrong, who knows. Some had just asked my perspective

In regards to those bench guys, I admire the loyalty. Who knows one might end up starting Herd That or come back and be an announcer for the broadcasts.

OT thank you for your perspective and being forthright in your beliefs. It is nice to hear the views of somebody who has been part of the team.

[Always THE HERD]

Gone wrong? No. Has athletics changed with nil, portal, etc? Yes. The results you know the last few years aren?t what anyone wanted. But you know who it probably bothered more than this board? That would be Dan. I?ll never say a bad word about him and respect the way he did everything. There is a reason there is a herd that. There is a reason Jon would want to come back to be an assistant, why Ryan Taylor is on staff, why Steve browning and Milan were both GAs, why Justin Edmonds is a ga, why I came back to be an announcer.  Dan ran a first class program. To me, that?s more important than wins and losses. Both are important but I know which one I value more.

I was just wondering why "you" used the words for had to "rebuild" the program. You are the one that made that statment.

[bighat]

Chris you just don't get it if something is wrong it is still wrong no matter how you want it to be right.

[FilmJunky]

Well if it's all about loyalty then let's just take some of the basketball money and transfer to football or soccer or woman's basketball. Let's at least try and win at something. I guess the basketball motto should be "we play for loyalty and hope the guys come back" instead of winning championships? I hope the administration doesn't have this view because they will start losing a lot of the fanbase. But personally I don't think Corny will have the approach of letting guys sit for 4-5 years like Danny that can't produce. Matter of fact I know he won't.

They asked for Ot's opinion and he gave it. Does not mean he is right or wrong, but that's what an opinion is supposed to be. Someone's thoughts on a situation. You never seemed to care about blasting your opinion on Dan for the first 8 years being in his back pocket, and his biggest supporter telling everyone how great he is / was. Then after 1 down year you switch up quicker than WV weather this time of year......

[mu79grad]

I just want a coach that can muster the knowledge and resources to defeat the odd high-major from time to time. Not afraid to rock the boat and not just stand there with a warm smile and handshake, yukking it up with the opposing coach after a record-setting 118-82 beatdown.

At least he shook hands with Coach Cal, he couldn't say that about all the opposing coaches.

[Flat Tire 2]

Last post I?ll make and I promise I?m not calling you out individually. But the hatred for Dan and the fans threatening to give up season tickets is not cool. This is from a former players perspective, that?s tough to see from anyone. And definitely would only hinder the program and not help. Coach Dan had it right when he said you should support the school, win or lose. It?s Marshall and should be the place we love. And trust me I know this board wants to win and is tough. Probably too tough. Heck I?ve checked in here and get maligned for my coaching decisions of herd that from time to time and how I could be doing better. And that?s something I do every summer with Jon just because our love for the school and wanting to represent it well. Even been maligned for announcing the games and I just do that because Marshall asked me to. I have a day job and have no desire to be an announcer. Moral of the story, I hope fans realize prospective players see this board, players do , former players, etc. I?m going to support win or lose.
 You should be Asking not what the team can / should be doing for you, but what you could be doing for the team -ot Elmore

I can appreciate your perspective as a younger person and player and your loyalty for Dan. College sports has changed with the NIL and transfer rule. Players use to trade a scholarship/education for performing, now they can receive compensation on top of their other benefits. The loyalty of most of the players to a school is mostly gone in this new era. A young player gets upset and he can now leave his current employer for any reason or a better deal. Players perform for the public and they have to accept public's reviews. It is part of life, if you are in the public eye you will get critiqued.  I do agree that some fans are over the top.

Marshall is selling a product and fans have a right not to spend their money on a product that don't feel is a worthwhile expenditure. I am a lot older than you and I have seen consumers of Marshall's product in the past cancel season tickets, it is  nothing new and it is their right. Undying support for a school is ridiculous. You can't expect consumers to invest in a product that they don't feel  supplies a need or want.

Fans or the public expressing their unhappiness with a coach or program is nothing new. I remember in the 1960-1970's era when Tennessee supporters hired a moving van and parked it in front of the UT football coach. Do some research in some of the old Chief Justice yearbooks, I remember in the 1950's and 1960's Marshall students hanging coaches in effigy on the campus.

Dan's problem is that he couldn't adapt to the changes in college sports. He also had issues with recruiting; roster management and coaching. I also would there was concern about his work ethic. He approached college basketball as if it was the same as when he was a player in the 1960's. Conditions have changed in the last 60's years and Dan couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the changes. He was failing, you either adapt or you fail. Rumors are now surfacing that he had a ego problem/personality clashes with his superiors. Never bite the hand that feeds you. Everyone is replaceable as apparently Dan found out the other day.

[svherd]

If Dan hadn't thrown a hissy fit in his meeting with Brad and Spears, he's likely still be the coach. Going postal in that kind of meeting doesn't give your boss the confidence to keep you on board. And Brad was a Dan fan.

[miltonherdfan]

If Dan hadn't thrown a hissy fit in his meeting with Brad and Spears, he's likely still be the coach. Going postal in that kind of meeting doesn't give your boss the confidence to keep you on board. And Brad was a Dan fan.

where'd this come from??

[elginherd]

Yes SVherd, do tell!

[MUther]

OT thank you for your perspective and being forthright in your beliefs. It is nice to hear the views of somebody who has been part of the team.

Agreed.  I'm glad he was willing to share with us.  It's pretty rare.  I think Clint VanHorn is the only other one that gave us some perspective around the time Doc was let go.  We don't always agree, hell, we don't even agree with each other but it's still enriching to hear how players feel that lived through it all.  So, thanks for that, Ot.

As fanatics, try to remember that for us every piece of news is the worst thing that ever happened or the best thing that ever happened and sometimes both or changes in a matter of days or minutes.  We are the people that take everything to heart and have mostly no rational reasoning in the way we feel about things.  That's our job.  Inside folks, like players, may not like what we say, sometimes, but the only time it should bother you is when we stop saying anything at all.  That's when we no longer care.

[Always THE HERD]

where'd this come from??

I too am wondering.