Topic: Do you think Brad Smith knows MU Basketball History?

[whf]

I've been thinking a lot about the continuation of DD as our basketball coach, and I wonder if Brad Smith realizes he could have 6 to 7 thousand fans in the seats at the CAM with the right investment in basketball. While I am hopeful that DD will soon be gone, the advancements in the support elements of the program can't be denied; if we couple them with a strong, highly respected coach, in the SBC, we could easily reignite the Herd roundball support.

Huntington, was always a basketball first town until the dreaded plane crash. Even afterwards, as folks started supporting football, they continued to support basketball as well because their was excitement with the leagues; this is true IMHO up and through the C-USA days.  SoCon and MAC games were up for grabs almost every time it was tipped; we can do it again.

But Spears must understand the energy was derived from the spirit of a New Coach when things got bad, a new chance, a new hope.  We have little to no hope. There is good money on the table for MU to grab, and I understand that Smith may not want to upset the apple cart; but it was the upsetting the apple cart that always kept the fans investing, hoping, and attending.

I am using Brad Smith instead of Christian Spears because I understand the final decision to keep DD was lifted up to Brad Smith, and he made the decision to keep him on. I do not have first level proof of this, but the story was passed along in quite some detail by someone I trust would not give the info unless he was confident it was correct; definately not a rumor participant.

[mu79grad]

Growing up in Kenova, you would have to think that Dr. Smith is well versed in Marshall basketball history.  I just got back from the UK-Marshall softball game.  I was speaking with some of the Big Green "brass" and they told me that a final decision has not been made about retaining Dan but a statement should be forthcoming with a couple of weeks. 

[marshallmark]

People often talk about the Marshall basketball history, but if you take out the '66-'73 time period and a little excitement around the Huck years, Marshall has been very pedestrian in basketball its entire history.  The years when we'd be seriously considered for a top 25 spot anytime in the year are few/far between and a long time ago. 

[herdman22]

I would think they don't want to take away from the women right now. I would say next week something will happen unless the women are still playing. Let them have their moment. It's an exciting time.

[carolinaherdfan]

People often talk about the Marshall basketball history, but if you take out the '66-'73 time period and a little excitement around the Huck years, Marshall has been very pedestrian in basketball its entire history.  The years when we'd be seriously considered for a top 25 spot anytime in the year are few/far between and a long time ago.

When the game was much smaller in WV and growing, Marshall was quiet good roughly between 1938 thru 1958...then off and on into the 60's and parts of the '70's; then again during the '80's; since then for the most part the State of WV and the Leadership of Marshall has let the University and State of WV down...
Sadly, We are absolutely bone dry now...

[marshallmark]

When the game was much smaller in WV and growing, Marshall was quiet good roughly between 1938 thru 1958...then off and on into the 60's and parts of the '70's; then again during the '80's; since then for the most part the State of WV and the Leadership of Marshall has let the University and State of WV down...
Sadly, We are absolutely bone dry now...

I don't count small college as being really successful.  Its nice, but its like the 1-AA national championships.  I'm certainly glad we got there, but the '99 team is the best Marshall team ever notwithstanding it didn't win a national championship. 

[carolinaherdfan]

I don't count small college as being really successful.  Its nice, but its like the 1-AA national championships.  I'm certainly glad we got there, but the '99 team is the best Marshall team ever notwithstanding it didn't win a national championship.

Let's stick with the venue of basketball. That's was your conjecture...
'99 football should never become a part of this discussion.

[Garbanjo]

People often talk about the Marshall basketball history, but if you take out the '66-'73 time period and a little excitement around the Huck years, Marshall has been very pedestrian in basketball its entire history.  The years when we'd be seriously considered for a top 25 spot anytime in the year are few/far between and a long time ago.

You are correct but we have tremendous fan support for a program with a meh history in BBall

I've always believed we could be legit in BBall

I had hoped DD was gonna build on the NCAA win but clearly he has not

I'm certain we can run the Sun Belt with a great hire

We just did it with Coach Kim

Why not us?

Go Herd!

[miltonherdfan]

Growing up in Kenova, you would have to think that Dr. Smith is well versed in Marshall basketball history.  I just got back from the UK-Marshall softball game.  I was speaking with some of the Big Green "brass" and they told me that a final decision has not been made about retaining Dan but a statement should be forthcoming with a couple of weeks.

if this were true -- & i don't question what you say you were told -- this would be a horrible approach!  we've got scholarships opening up on a weekly basis & we'd be leaving DD in charge of handing 'em out to new bench warmers!  apparently, he's already wasted 1 on pruett.  that would be about par for this administration.  DD will hand out all of our open scholarships to a bunch of D-II players, THEN they'll announce he's not returning.  haha

[carolinaherdfan]

You are correct but we have tremendous support for a program with a meh history in BBall

I've always believed we could be legit in BBall

I had hoped DD was gonna build on the NCAA win but clearly he has not

I'm certain we can run the Sun Belt with a great hire

We just did it with Coach Kim

Why not us?

Go Herd!

What are you talking about?
You are correct!
That's b/s...
Take a look at WVU's schedule in 1938/39...
Playing Marietta, Wesleyan, Salem etc...if MU was playing small ball, Marshall Marks words, what would you call the WVU schedule?

[CoachMaclid]

I don't count small college as being really successful.  Its nice, but its like the 1-AA national championships.  I'm certainly glad we got there, but the '99 team is the best Marshall team ever notwithstanding it didn't win a national championship.

The distinction wasn't profound then as it was now.  The simple fact is that in the 30's-50s era, Marshall produced some of the best basketball players of the era.  Andy Tonkovich was a #1 overall draft pick in the second ever NBA Draft.  He's rarely talked about now, but Leo Byrd was legit one of the best guards in the country during his era, a consensus All-American and earned a spot on Team USA.  And of course his teammate was Hal Greer - one of the best pros ever.  Throw in people like Charlie Slack, winning the LA Invitation over the likes of UCLA and Syracuse, etc, and I'd argue there's few teams outside of the true-blue bloods or national title winners that have an era like that.  And that's not even talking about the late 60s - early 70s era with Russ Lee, the NIT teams, the #8 ranked team, etc.  Marshall basketball history was a shiny little penny until the fallout of the sanctions of the late 80's and the 30 year-drought that followed.  We have an overall basketball history we should be extremely proud to represent.

[carolinaherdfan]

Sad times...poor leadership! Smoke and mirrors...
We need help.

[herdman22]

We've had some great coaches come through here that didn't last long enough to make an impact. Stu Aberdeen was one of the hottest names in coaching when he came here and was bringing Leo Rautins in and who knows who else and he died after only a couple of years.

This was the first head coaching job for both Dana Altman and Billy Donovan but they left after one and two years. We know what they did since.

Bob Zuffelato was a very well respected basketball coach but following Stu was never going to be easy. But he set the table for the Huck years.

It's hard telling where we would be now if Altman had stuck around a few more years.

Unfortunately around these good hires have been some big misses that have kept us from keeping any momentum.

[MUther]

We've had good basketball without winning a damn thing.  Dan's first few years before EVERYONE caught on.  Herrion's first couple.  Donnie Jones coaching for and against us.  Jirsa beating and only beating WVU.  White always had good players it seems, but they couldn't get over the hump.  That covers the last quarter century.  What we have now is not good basketball.  It's not entertaining.  It's barely competitive against teams that are barely competitive.  I'd go as far as saying it's often embarrassing.  We don't have to win every game to be successful and entertaining but it'd be nice to look like we could.  To not be written off as soon as we walk in the gym somewhere.

[ru4mu2]

I would think they don't want to take away from the women right now. I would say next week something will happen unless the women are still playing. Let them have their moment. It's an exciting time.

THIS!!! IF a statement is to be made, it will not be until after the Women's season is completed.

[Flat Tire 2]

I am fairly sure that Marshall became a D1 in basketball when we joined the MAC for the 1953-1954 season.

Marshall can become a successful basketball program if we hire a good coach and devote the resources to the program. At this stage of the game we have increased resources, but we have a bad coach. I think that everyone realizes at Marshall's level in  college sports, the coach might be poached by a larger program. If anyone thinks that Dan is a good coach, why hasn't he been offered a job by a larger program?

Maybe Brad is not well verse in sports? I am sure there are people around him that realize we need make a coaching change in basketball. Just look at the won/loss record and it will tell him all he know about the program. Fire Dan and hire a good coach.

[herdorbust2]

THIS!!! IF a statement is to be made, it will not be until after the Women's season is completed.

Why? It has nothing to do with woman's basketball. You think other schools don't fire men's coaches while the womans team is going to the dance? I mean, I hope this is the case and we still have hope that something will be done. But getting rid of Dan shouldn't take anything away from what the woman are doing.

[svherd]

I think it all comes down to money. Obviously some older boosters like DD, and Brad likes the money they donate. With Marshall trying to stave off millions in debt, the last things Brad wants to do is lose a group that donate likely millions collectively. I know, they'll lose a bunch of fans next year, but doubt it comes close to what they would lose by firing DD now.
Brad likely assumes, that any fans lost will come back when a new coach is hired and hopefully has success early on. Just my thoughts, could be totally off base though.

If we were awash with cash, I truly feel he would be gone now.

[ru4mu2]

Why? It has nothing to do with woman's basketball. You think other schools don't fire men's coaches while the womans team is going to the dance? I mean, I hope this is the case and we still have hope that something will be done. But getting rid of Dan shouldn't take anything away from what the woman are doing.

That's your opinion and we're all entitled to one.  Just my belief that if something is announced (retirement/re-assignment, or he's still our coach) it won't be done until the Women's season is finished. I look at it this way, they don't have to make a statement at all.  He's under contract for two more years......You are correct about other schools which is why they're not going to fire him.  It would have happened by now, IMO.

[Flat Tire 2]

I think it all comes down to money. Obviously some older boosters like DD, and Brad likes the money they donate. With Marshall trying to stave off millions in debt, the last things Brad wants to do is lose a group that donate likely millions collectively. I know, they'll lose a bunch of fans next year, but doubt it comes close to what they would lose by firing DD now.
Brad likely assumes, that any fans lost will come back when a new coach is hired and hopefully has success early on. Just my thoughts, could be totally off base though.

If we were awash with cash, I truly feel he would be gone now.

You are probably correct. I think Brad has his plate full with trying to reduce the deficit and trying to move Marshall forward. It is a shame that Dan is so selfish and can't accept the fact that he is failing. The whole situation is on Dan and I think the majority of fans are starting to abandon him. Dan is bringing the bad blood on himself and has no one else to blame.

[jdonaccbus]

Let me preface my comments by saying that I am 54 years old. I don't want some of what I say to be taken out of context. But unfortunately I feel we have a split fanbase. I believe there is an older generation of supporters that loves Dan. I get that. But to me, wins, to that crowd, are not as important. What is important to them is that they feel like they are a part of the program. They are allowed to attend practices. They are allowed to mingle with the players. And many of them have a close relationship with Dan. I hate to put it this way but I strongly feel that they live vicariously through the men's basketball program and that is good enough for them.

On the other hand, we have an older generation, a middle-aged generation and a younger generation that can see that too many of the necessary qualities that a winning program needs to have is completely lacking. Recruiting has become an absolute joke recently. We hear things from the other crowd that this is "the most speed Dan has ever had". I never saw it. Many on my side of the coin see a roster that is full of players that have little athletic ability at the Division 1 level or have little to no basketball qualities needed to win at this level. There is also never any change in plans like 99% of the coaches do throughout the course of the season. I have to ask......did any one see any change in our defense all year??? The lack of fundamentals is bad too. As much time now that NCAA coaches have to work with players throughout the course of a 365-day year, I would think the fundamentals of the game for us would be much better. I actually think the fundamental part of the game and the player development part of the game gets much worse for Marshall players the longer they are here. There are a few exceptions.....Kinsey. But for the most part I see too much player regression.

I think most Marshall fans right now want a go-getter as a coach. We just don't have that. We have a coach that is.....well.....very laid back and comfortable in his position. Most coaches in America don't have that luxury. You can say what you want about Coach Caldwell.....her style, her game planning, etc.......fine......but no one can deny she is a real go-getter. I think most of our fans really like that. Many of us have become more attached to her program, not just because they win, but because she is the anti-Dan style of coach. She is not laid back. She seems to really have precision to detail. Player motivation is very strong.

I am worried that we play too much to those that have an overwhelming affection to the '50s, '60s and '70s. I didn't say it wasn't important to remember those eras. But younger fans want to see ballers, athletes and a little bit of flair to the program. I just think the longer this goes then we will appease those Dan fans of the older generation. But I truly think we write off a younger generation with that. I think the longer this continues, the more interest in the program will evaporate. I, for one, am giving up my season tickets and financial support for this program that I have given since the early 90s. I can't take Dan's approach to recruiting and roster management any longer. I just flat out think it is laziness and a good portion is that we really tries to not recruit metro style players.....if you get my drift. I hate giving up tickets because I like a lot of the people that I sat around for years. A lot of them were older fans and were pretty dissatisfied by the end of the season. Yes I know most of the crowds were good. But there was little enthusiasm in the building and that really worries me.

[herdorbust2]

You are probably correct. I think Brad has his plate full with trying to reduce the deficit and trying to move Marshall forward. It is a shame that Dan is so selfish and can't accept the fact that he is failing. The whole situation is on Dan and I think the majority of fans are starting to abandon him. Dan is bringing the bad blood on himself and has no one else to blame.

I have heard Dan say many times that he doesn't care what his legacy will be because he will be dead and then laughed about it. He honestly doesn't care what fans think. All he cares about is keeping his hobby.

[FilmJunky]

Brad has more fish to fry than worry solely about athletics. Yes I'm sure he pays attention closely, but moving the university forward with different programs, buildings, facilities is #1 on his list. Not everything is about Dan Dantoni and whether or not the basketball team is good.

Also, what rich basketball history does Marshall have? 6 NCAA appearances since the 50's does not scream basketball tradition.

[herdorbust2]

Brad has more fish to fry than worry solely about athletics. Yes I'm sure he pays attention closely, but moving the university forward with different programs, buildings, facilities is #1 on his list. Not everything is about Dan Dantoni and whether or not the basketball team is good.

Also, what rich basketball history does Marshall have? 6 NCAA appearances since the 50's does not scream basketball tradition.

Nobody said basketball was all he had to worry about. But a good president and AD "do" care about it or should. You just don't let an old man run the program into the ground. Hopefully we have a president and AD that can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[herd2win]

Sports bring the most recognition to a university.  That is why Colorado has gained enrollment, Alabama grew under Saban, Georgia is now super difficult to get in to.  Successful sports benefit a university greatly.