Topic: NHR- Jim Justice proposed 50 million to WVSU for School of Agricultural denied

[Johnnyherd]

https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/west-virginia-ends-legislative-session-pay-raises-tax-cuts-social-issue-bills/

It would be nice for Marshall to develop a school of agriculture and a law school, thoughts?

[Flat Tire 2]

This thread probably should be on Tavern On the Green.

There is already one agricultural school at wvu which is a land grant institution. WVSC was originally the land grant school for African Americans when there was segregation (FWIW WVSC is now a majority White College due to decline of Black residents).  WVSC basically dropped the agricultural program due the decline of farming in WV years ago, but has attempted to renew it to increase enrollment. We don't need another agricultural school for a declining industry. State can't afford it and needs to consolidate the other state normal schools.

Law schools are everywhere and WV citizens would be better served with other programs like maybe another dental school or other health sciences. Increasing the size of the MU medical school would be more beneficial to WV taxpayers than a law school.

FWIW: An online law school might be a inexpensive way to have a law school. There are a lot of average law schools close to WV.

[marshallmark]

This thread probably should be on Tavern On the Green.

There is already one agricultural school at wvu which is a land grant institution. WVSC was originally the land grant school for African Americans when there was segregation (FWIW WVSC is now a majority White College due to decline of Black residents).  WVSC basically dropped the agricultural program due the decline of farming in WV years ago, but has attempted to renew it to increase enrollment. We don't need another agricultural school for a declining industry. State can't afford it and needs to consolidate the other state normal schools.

Law schools are everywhere and WV citizens would be better served with other programs like maybe another dental school or other health sciences. Increasing the size of the MU medical school would be more beneficial to WV taxpayers than a law school.

FWIW: An online law school might be a inexpensive way to have a law school. There are a lot of average law schools close to WV.

Another lawyer and I had a meeting with then-Pres. Gilley about the need to start a law school.  Here was my take then, and its still possible:

-  You'd think that there are enough lawyers, but studies and experience have shown that there is still a market for more young lawyers, i.e. no one can find or keep associates.  The ones that are doing God's work, representing kids in abuse/neglect cases, being assistant prosecutors and public defenders need pay raises desperately and are leaving the state and that particular practice way too often.  There is also an acute lack of lawyers in rural areas.

- There are several law schools in the area, but only one in-state to serve the WV population.  WVU takes in about 110 students per year and while most of them will stay in WV to practice, a good percentage leave.  In addition, the student population at WVU is historically weighted toward WVU undergrads, leaving few options for other state universities' graduates. 

- There are hundreds of people that would like to go but can't afford to take 3 years off to go to Morgantown and law school.  Many are in state government in Charleston.

-  Marshall has the infrastructure at South Charleston to accommodate a night/weekend law school utilizing adjunct teachers to keep the cost down.  The Univ. of Illinois has a branch law school in Chicago (used to be called, ironically, the John Marshall Law School) that has 1000 students in evening/weekend classes and MU could easily pattern its school after that one with, for instance, 35-40 students in each class.  It would be inexpensive and would immediately serve an underserved population (returning urban students) that cannot be served traditionally.

- WVU's College of Law Dean told me it would cost $30million to start a law school - I told her I could do it for $5mil with an ongoing yearly cost of $2mil.  She didn't agree, but behind the scenes WVU has put the proverbial word out to the legislature that any effort by MU to build a law school would be outrageously expensive and would hurt WVU.  WVU is worried about a potential MU Law School and that tells me its feasible.

- Lastly, and some of you won't like this story, but I blame ex-Pres. Kopp for MU not getting a law school in the mid-2000s.  There was a true effort in the legislature to authorize one (not sure it needs any legislative authorization, but perhaps funding was attached - it never got to the bill writing stage), but for some reason Pres. Kopp wasn't very interested.  Maybe the 'stigma' of a night school?  Don't know....anyway, WVU had decided that it was interested in acquiring the old Union Carbide Tech Center in South Charleston to expand its engineering school (this was before WVU swallowed WV Tech) - Kopp literally traded the possibility of a law school to keep WVU out of the Kanawha Valley, e.g. he promised not to start a law school if WVU gave up its plans for the Tech Center.  Of course, WVU just found another way into the Kanawha Valley through the health care system and soon after this 'deal', placed a branch in Beckley for the Tech and other students - literally cutting off a historic Marshall stronghold in that area. 

- Lots of similar stories, but I gotta go to work.   

[elginherd]

This thread probably should be on Tavern On the Green.

There is already one agricultural school at wvu which is a land grant institution. WVSC was originally the land grant school for African Americans when there was segregation (FWIW WVSC is now a majority White College due to decline of Black residents).  WVSC basically dropped the agricultural program due the decline of farming in WV years ago, but has attempted to renew it to increase enrollment. We don't need another agricultural school for a declining industry. State can't afford it and needs to consolidate the other state normal schools.

Law schools are everywhere and WV citizens would be better served with other programs like maybe another dental school or other health sciences. Increasing the size of the MU medical school would be more beneficial to WV taxpayers than a law school.

FWIW: An online law school might be a inexpensive way to have a law school. There are a lot of average law schools close to WV.

I agree with you regarding an agriculture school.
Gut-wise, I also agree regarding a law school.
The long term argument regarding a law school is that successful lawyers tend to contribute money and lobby for their alma maters.
Marshall needs more advocacy in state government.

[svherd]

Another lawyer and I had a meeting with then-Pres. Gilley about the need to start a law school.  Here was my take then, and its still possible:

-  You'd think that there are enough lawyers, but studies and experience have shown that there is still a market for more young lawyers, i.e. no one can find or keep associates.  The ones that are doing God's work, representing kids in abuse/neglect cases, being assistant prosecutors and public defenders need pay raises desperately and are leaving the state and that particular practice way too often.  There is also an acute lack of lawyers in rural areas.

- There are several law schools in the area, but only one in-state to serve the WV population.  WVU takes in about 110 students per year and while most of them will stay in WV to practice, a good percentage leave.  In addition, the student population at WVU is historically weighted toward WVU undergrads, leaving few options for other state universities' graduates. 

- There are hundreds of people that would like to go but can't afford to take 3 years off to go to Morgantown and law school.  Many are in state government in Charleston.

-  Marshall has the infrastructure at South Charleston to accommodate a night/weekend law school utilizing adjunct teachers to keep the cost down.  The Univ. of Illinois has a branch law school in Chicago (used to be called, ironically, the John Marshall Law School) that has 1000 students in evening/weekend classes and MU could easily pattern its school after that one with, for instance, 35-40 students in each class.  It would be inexpensive and would immediately serve an underserved population (returning urban students) that cannot be served traditionally.

- WVU's College of Law Dean told me it would cost $30million to start a law school - I told her I could do it for $5mil with an ongoing yearly cost of $2mil.  She didn't agree, but behind the scenes WVU has put the proverbial word out to the legislature that any effort by MU to build a law school would be outrageously expensive and would hurt WVU.  WVU is worried about a potential MU Law School and that tells me its feasible.

- Lastly, and some of you won't like this story, but I blame ex-Pres. Kopp for MU not getting a law school in the mid-2000s.  There was a true effort in the legislature to authorize one (not sure it needs any legislative authorization, but perhaps funding was attached - it never got to the bill writing stage), but for some reason Pres. Kopp wasn't very interested.  Maybe the 'stigma' of a night school?  Don't know....anyway, WVU had decided that it was interested in acquiring the old Union Carbide Tech Center in South Charleston to expand its engineering school (this was before WVU swallowed WV Tech) - Kopp literally traded the possibility of a law school to keep WVU out of the Kanawha Valley, e.g. he promised not to start a law school if WVU gave up its plans for the Tech Center.  Of course, WVU just found another way into the Kanawha Valley through the health care system and soon after this 'deal', placed a branch in Beckley for the Tech and other students - literally cutting off a historic Marshall stronghold in that area. 

- Lots of similar stories, but I gotta go to work.

Always enjoy your posts. You obviously have a unique background and insite into what goes on at Marshall.

[Flat Tire 2]

FYI: wvu medical campus in Charleston was started in 1972. I knew someone associated with the formation of the Marshall Med School and he told me that they could never find out the budget for the wvu Charleston operation when it started.

https://medicine.wvu.edu/charleston/about/

[Flat Tire 2]

I agree with you regarding an agriculture school.
Gut-wise, I also agree regarding a law school.
The long term argument regarding a law school is that successful lawyers tend to contribute money and lobby for their alma maters.
Marshall needs more advocacy in state government.

Hopefully we are seeing a shift in the advocacy for Marshall in state government. The Legislature funded the $45 million for the new cyber building recently and wvu was asking for the exact same amount of money to cover their budget deficit. wvu was refused the money and I have never seen Marshall get something from the state when they didn't also give wvu something. Hopefully this is a sign of change?

[marshallmark]

Hopefully we are seeing a shift in the advocacy for Marshall in state government. The Legislature funded the $45 million for the new cyber building recently and wvu was asking for the exact same amount of money to cover their budget deficit. wvu was refused the money and I have never seen Marshall get something from the state when they didn't also give wvu something. Hopefully this is a sign of change?

Back in the '70s, the then-Prez of MU told me he was ecstatic when WVU got $$ for a building or program, because that meant Marshall would get 1/2 that amount for itself. 

[svherd]

Hopefully we are seeing a shift in the advocacy for Marshall in state government. The Legislature funded the $45 million for the new cyber building recently and wvu was asking for the exact same amount of money to cover their budget deficit. wvu was refused the money and I have never seen Marshall get something from the state when they didn't also give wvu something. Hopefully this is a sign of change?

Thankfully guys like Justice, Plymale, Rohrbach and others fight for MU these days. jmho

No other Gov would have given us the money for the baseball stadium.

[Johnnyherd]

Another lawyer and I had a meeting with then-Pres. Gilley about the need to start a law school.  Here was my take then, and its still possible:

-  You'd think that there are enough lawyers, but studies and experience have shown that there is still a market for more young lawyers, i.e. no one can find or keep associates.  The ones that are doing God's work, representing kids in abuse/neglect cases, being assistant prosecutors and public defenders need pay raises desperately and are leaving the state and that particular practice way too often.  There is also an acute lack of lawyers in rural areas.

- There are several law schools in the area, but only one in-state to serve the WV population.  WVU takes in about 110 students per year and while most of them will stay in WV to practice, a good percentage leave.  In addition, the student population at WVU is historically weighted toward WVU undergrads, leaving few options for other state universities' graduates. 

- There are hundreds of people that would like to go but can't afford to take 3 years off to go to Morgantown and law school.  Many are in state government in Charleston.

-  Marshall has the infrastructure at South Charleston to accommodate a night/weekend law school utilizing adjunct teachers to keep the cost down.  The Univ. of Illinois has a branch law school in Chicago (used to be called, ironically, the John Marshall Law School) that has 1000 students in evening/weekend classes and MU could easily pattern its school after that one with, for instance, 35-40 students in each class.  It would be inexpensive and would immediately serve an underserved population (returning urban students) that cannot be served traditionally.

- WVU's College of Law Dean told me it would cost $30million to start a law school - I told her I could do it for $5mil with an ongoing yearly cost of $2mil.  She didn't agree, but behind the scenes WVU has put the proverbial word out to the legislature that any effort by MU to build a law school would be outrageously expensive and would hurt WVU.  WVU is worried about a potential MU Law School and that tells me its feasible.

- Lastly, and some of you won't like this story, but I blame ex-Pres. Kopp for MU not getting a law school in the mid-2000s.  There was a true effort in the legislature to authorize one (not sure it needs any legislative authorization, but perhaps funding was attached - it never got to the bill writing stage), but for some reason Pres. Kopp wasn't very interested.  Maybe the 'stigma' of a night school?  Don't know....anyway, WVU had decided that it was interested in acquiring the old Union Carbide Tech Center in South Charleston to expand its engineering school (this was before WVU swallowed WV Tech) - Kopp literally traded the possibility of a law school to keep WVU out of the Kanawha Valley, e.g. he promised not to start a law school if WVU gave up its plans for the Tech Center.  Of course, WVU just found another way into the Kanawha Valley through the health care system and soon after this 'deal', placed a branch in Beckley for the Tech and other students - literally cutting off a historic Marshall stronghold in that area. 

- Lots of similar stories, but I gotta go to work.

I agree.  I think a small law school would add unique knowledge and expertise, as well as create in-state opportunities for alumni.  A law school would likely add premium tuition to Marshall and create a legal community at our university.  It would like provide donor base as well. 

The option of go to WVU or pay extra out of state tuition leaves a lot to be desired for WV residents wanting to become lawyers.

[ThunderDent]

[ Invalid YouTube link ]I agree on the non-traditional law school.

And we also desperately need another dental school in the state.

For every 1 person interested in southern WV, there are 10 wanting to "stay close to Morgantown only". The rest all leave the state to go south.

[2xBison]

Thankfully guys like Justice, Plymale, Rohrbach and others fight for MU these days. jmho

No other Gov would have given us the money for the baseball stadium.

at least one of those fights to keep DD....so.....