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The Green and White Sector
The place to talk Marshall University sports! => HerdFans => Topic started by: saherdfan on September 18, 2017, 09:09:59 PM
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Why not take their money and let them in? What is C-USA going to let another sh!tty team in? Big deal... There are a lot of sh!tty teams in this conference already. The only downside is that we would help them move up to the AAC quicker than us. They could be the next UCF. They at least have the attendance and money. My question is why would they pay money to get into our league?
https://pilotonline.com/sports/columnist/harry-minium/c-usa-rejected-liberty-university-s-generous-offer-to-join/article_4aef1fa8-6614-58ea-97f4-25805187fa70.html
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How many millions more? One source pegged the offer at $24 million. The offer coincidentally came at about the same time C-USA was learning its TV revenue would soon crater, going from paying $1.1 million per school annually to about $200,000.
But C-USA presidents, who had the final call, were unwilling to invite a private, evangelical school with conservative values and a sometimes controversial chancellor. That left the Flames to chart their own course.
Money talks and Sh1t walks. Is this all about Religion and politics? Sad...
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Liberty would be a nice addition..
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Didn't we sign a series with them? If Pres & Mike are smart they would really try to help Liberty get in and form a strong bond between the schools. Maybe we help them, and later they help us type of thing. I have no doubt given time with the money and viewership they have whey will move up quickly if they win.
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If they offered $24M (or $2M per conference member, it was a bad decision by the C-USA presidents. Take the money. Liberty isn't going to move to the P5 anytime soon, but they could bring lots of exposure and excitement to the conference. Plus, another very close conference mate.
On second thought, nah, that would make too much sense.
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Won't happen due to their academic reputation.
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Won't happen due to their academic reputation.
and where'd they get all their cash? speculating; if CUSA surface investigated and followed the "earnings" they might have seen risk, potentially multiple conflicts of interest? they have after all, taken strong political positions.
which current member would be dropped to accommodate them? is it to be supposed that CUSA would be OK with and odd number of members or two additions to total 16? how far will $24M (tainted or not) carry CUSA in the big scheme?
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CUSA's academic reputation really starts and ends with Rice. For all its baggage, Liberty would be a good fit and immediately competitive.
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Won't happen due to their academic reputation.
It has everything to do with them being anti-gay, etc. They have way to socially conservative views for a conference to affiliate itself with them. I'm rendering absolutely no opinion of them but those are the facts.
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It has everything to do with them being anti-gay, etc. They have way to socially conservative views for a conference to affiliate itself with them. I'm rendering absolutely no opinion of them but those are the facts.
Seriously? Do you realize how progressive most universities have become, why does it become an issue only if being to conservative is the issue.
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It has everything to do with them being anti-gay, etc. They have way to socially conservative views for a conference to affiliate itself with them. I'm rendering absolutely no opinion of them but those are the facts.
Seriously? Do you realize how progressive most universities have become, why does it become an issue only if being to conservative is the issue.
overblown BS!
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I would welcome Liberty...
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I'd rather JMU or Coastal Carolina; Lynchburg is really hard to get to.
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It has everything to do with them being anti-gay, etc. They have way to socially conservative views for a conference to affiliate itself with them. I'm rendering absolutely no opinion of them but those are the facts.
I never could stand Jerry Falwell, but anti-gay backlash stuff would give me a good reason to root for them. Gays are the most intolerant group of people there are. Always acting like something is up their butt. LOL
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I would welcome Liberty...
me too!
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I would welcome Liberty...
I'd much prefer JMU.
But for 12 Mill up front, I'd take them.
At this point I'd say no deal is the done deal.
Really a dumb move by C-USA. We'd have been much better off to take Liberty and kick UAB to the curb.
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I'd rather JMU or Coastal Carolina; Lynchburg is really hard to get to.
Any possible future G5 reconfigurations could make a nice regional conference with Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, Appy St, ODU, JMU & Liberty.
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Any possible future G5 reconfigurations could make a nice regional conference with Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, Appy St, ODU, JMU & Liberty.
Personally, the thought of having Liberty joining CUSA makes me more depressing and nausea's! Look at the teams you just mentioned, Charlotte, JMU, etc.. it seems like we're going in a downward spiral! We went from being relevant to falling further under the radar. It's no wonder "apathy" has sit in with so many Herd fans. I have to be honest, I'm just riding along with this season. I'm hoping this will change over time, but for now I'm not as happy as previous seasons.
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E, I got you. But for me, I realized some time ago that during my 47 years of rooting for, and supporting Marshall the university world has changed around me. Schools like UNCC, ODU, JMU, Liberty Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, Appy State...on and on, have grown by leaps and bounds while we've grown unsteadily and sporadically. Heck, I used to go to the Coastal Carolina Community College baseball field to watch pro developmental league baseball, the Blue Jays...
While this is a challenge for us athletically, the fact is that great universities have grown up in our midst and are educating hundreds of thousands of people every year. They all have ambitions and money too; are based in population growth areas, and have missions that require them to recruit effectivelly too.
I wish MU had been on the same mission as these schools, but it wasn't. Whether it is the state making it almost impossible, or the lack of creative leadership, I don't know. But I do know the days of thinking we should roll over these schools because We Are Marshall is long past. Think about it, we've got players who are the third generation after our plane crash. Some of their grand parents were only elementary students back then. We have to live in today on today's nickel and have a pitch of / for today.
I hate it, but I believe this is absolutely true. One of my sons often laments that although we are disappointed we do pretty well for being the "second thought" school in the third poorest state in the country. These aren't excuses to me, but they are true.
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E, I got you. But for me, I realized some time ago that during my 47 years of rooting for, and supporting Marshall the university world has changed around me. Schools like UNCC, ODU, JMU, Liberty Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, Appy State...on and on, have grown by leaps and bounds while we've grown unsteadily and sporadically. Heck, I used to go to the Coastal Carolina Community College baseball field to watch pro developmental league baseball, the Blue Jays...
While this is a challenge for us athletically, the fact is that great universities have grown up in our midst and are educating hundreds of thousands of people every year. They all have ambitions and money too; are based in population growth areas, and have missions that require them to recruit effectivelly too.
I wish MU had been on the same mission as these schools, but it wasn't. Whether it is the state making it almost impossible, or the lack of creative leadership, I don't know. But I do know the days of thinking we should roll over these schools because We Are Marshall is long past. Think about it, we've got players who are the third generation after our plane crash. Some of their grand parents were only elementary students back then. We have to live in today on today's nickel and have a pitch of / for today.
I hate it, but I believe this is absolutely true. One of my sons often laments that although we are disappointed we do pretty well for being the "second thought" school in the third poorest state in the country. These aren't excuses to me, but they are true.
Well stated, whf. Answers to the main question posed are many.
First, the poverty of the state is prime factor, IMO. However, its more than just economic poverty. It is also a poverty of ideas and vision, especially when it comes to education, and particularly higher education. For decades going back probably to the 40s, there's been little to NO emphasis on developing a quality higher education system in this state. Politicians, particularly those one party rulers for decades knew the state's economic viability depended on labor intensive entities: especially mining, chemicals, manufacturing, and, to a lesser extent, lumber extraction and wood products manufacturing.
When those industries started significant downturns running from the late 50s forward, the state looked a little harder at higher ed. But, unfortunately, they have equated higher ed to one institution in particular; and the state'smainfinancial support has mainly flowed mainly in the direction of that institution. The result: higher ed entities not located in Morgantown have struggled with severe underfunding in basic budgets, in being unable to develop the required physical plant/facilities needed to provide the quality education needed in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
In contrast, look at the states surrounding WV. Go to schools like WKU, EKU, MTSU, JMU, George Mason, Ohio U., etc., etc., and marvel at the extensive physical plants, including dorms, classroom/labs, recreational facilities, etc. Then look at MU's landlocked campus, with many outmoded, obsolete classroom and dorm facilities, lack of that much in way of recreational and "green space". No small wonder school's enrollment has stagnated for nearly 2 decades.
Want some comparisons? When I graduated from MU in latter 60s. George Mason was a small, one building "branch" of the University of Virginia. Today, an exploding suburban university with international reach just outside the nation's campus. When they made it to the NCAA Final 4, their head coach, now at Miami, FL, did some PR spots on television in the DC area, touting the building boom going on around the GMU campus, at a cost of over ONE BILLION DOLLARS!! I believe their enrollment is now the largest of ALL of Virginia's state supported higher ed colleges, even more than VA Tech or UVA (the "flagship" school). Another example: at same time, in Harrisonburg, VA, there was a small women's college. Today, it is now James Madison U., ranked at or near the top of the South's regional comprehensive universities and colleges. It has over 20,000 students, 700+ acre campus, 110+ major buildings, and from top to bottom probably the best and most successful overall athletics program in FCS and ahead of most G5 FBS schools like Marshall.
The main difference: a state like Virginia's governmental LEADERS realized early on that a quality and successful system of OVERALL higher ed. institutions was key to the state's growth and economic vitality. In WV, decades of career politicians, NOT LEADERS, instead decided to cater to the whims and desires of ONE school on the PA border. The result: the state has been, for half a century and continuing, watching the rest of the nation and its neighboring states progress and grow, while it stagnates, falls further behind, and prays that it doesn't one day wake up and find out that Mississippi is no longer a state in the Union!!
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https://twitter.com/Chuckonsports/status/910140466347352064
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I'd rather JMU or Coastal Carolina; Lynchburg is really hard to get to.
Isn't Coastal harder to get to from Huntington than Lynchburg? Looks like about three hours longer by car and the roads aren't exactly awesome.
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JMU would wreck C-USA this year. They would easily be the East favorite. Liberty might compete as well.
The fact that Liberty immediately hired the POS Baylor AD who thinks women who hang around football players deserve to be raped tells you all you need to know about that school. They're not a bad football or geographical fit, but I'll be upset if we ever wind up in a conference with them.
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ALthough further, IMHO Coastal is much easier drive than crossing the VA mountains into Lynchburg. Probably an opinion thing in what one appreciates in driving.
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Would much rather have JMU.
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E, I got you. But for me, I realized some time ago that during my 47 years of rooting for, and supporting Marshall the university world has changed around me. Schools like UNCC, ODU, JMU, Liberty Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, Appy State...on and on, have grown by leaps and bounds while we've grown unsteadily and sporadically. Heck, I used to go to the Coastal Carolina Community College baseball field to watch pro developmental league baseball, the Blue Jays...
While this is a challenge for us athletically, the fact is that great universities have grown up in our midst and are educating hundreds of thousands of people every year. They all have ambitions and money too; are based in population growth areas, and have missions that require them to recruit effectivelly too.
I wish MU had been on the same mission as these schools, but it wasn't. Whether it is the state making it almost impossible, or the lack of creative leadership, I don't know. But I do know the days of thinking we should roll over these schools because We Are Marshall is long past. Think about it, we've got players who are the third generation after our plane crash. Some of their grand parents were only elementary students back then. We have to live in today on today's nickel and have a pitch of / for today.
I hate it, but I believe this is absolutely true. One of my sons often laments that although we are disappointed we do pretty well for being the "second thought" school in the third poorest state in the country. These aren't excuses to me, but they are true.
This should be a sticky for the forum... When the rest of the country is growing and investing, we (Huntington/Marshall community) have been treading water since the 80's. Football in the 90's was the obvious bright spot. I have mentioned many times that enrollment is the key to brighter times for Marshall and Huntington. The problem is that honestly that is very difficult to do when our competitors have, from our perspective, unlimited resources. I know Marshall wanst sto increase enrollment to what, 15,000 in five years? That's a start. Huntington needs to make a goal of being the biggest city in the state within five. You're either green and growing, or ripe and rotting.
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This should be a sticky for the forum... When the rest of the country is growing and investing, we (Huntington/Marshall community) have been treading water since the 80's. Football in the 90's was the obvious bright spot. I have mentioned many times that enrollment is the key to brighter times for Marshall and Huntington. The problem is that honestly that is very difficult to do when our competitors have, from our perspective, unlimited resources. I know Marshall wanst sto increase enrollment to what, 15,000 in five years? That's a start. Huntington needs to make a goal of being the biggest city in the state within five. You're either green and growing, or ripe and rotting.
I was told by someone at Marshall that the enrollment is actually down slightly to last year.
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Huntington needs to make a goal of being the biggest city in the state within five. You're either green and growing, or ripe and rotting.
^^^ This, my sheeple, this...^^^
But until the Tri-State region gets all of its pols together for a real WV-KY-OH approach to expansion, and do really broad public-private partnerships, accomplishing that will be difficult. I'd love to see it happen, though. I can only hope the Huntington Innovation Project gets off the ground enough to get Huntington/Marshall to be the incubator of it all. I'm not sure Huntington could be the largest city within 5 years because of sufficient government infrastructure...maybe 10...but why not shoot for it?
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This should be a sticky for the forum... When the rest of the country is growing and investing, we (Huntington/Marshall community) have been treading water since the 80's. Football in the 90's was the obvious bright spot. I have mentioned many times that enrollment is the key to brighter times for Marshall and Huntington. The problem is that honestly that is very difficult to do when our competitors have, from our perspective, unlimited resources. I know Marshall wanst sto increase enrollment to what, 15,000 in five years? That's a start. Huntington needs to make a goal of being the biggest city in the state within five. You're either green and growing, or ripe and rotting.
Marshall is investing a lot of money in recruitment. I'll be surprised if it doesn't grow at least a little bit by next year.
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The HerdFans board has give Chuck a lot of article ideas. Funny stuff!
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I see $$$ over other political values, or religious opinions. C-USA needs money and you turn down money being thrown at you... Just does not seem like a good business decision for the league. We may get a better TV deal / coverage. We could be on all the Christian network channels... LOL. At this point if C-USA could get a good deal with the Satan network i think they should take it. I guess we already tried to get ESPN to pick our games up... LOL.
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As long as the city keeps electing politicians who have been in the Huntington system don't expect change.
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I am glad I am from Marshall and that we are scrappier than other schools because we have to do much with less. Our recently deceased university president gave a speech about Marshall University being a blue collar university that dealt with the needs of our state and the needs of the downtrodden. I think it was the most defining speech of my university that I ever heard. I am proud of Marshall University and that it never gave up on football or me.
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sun belt speaks out about rejecting liberty
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/9/21/16339764/liberty-football-fbs-conference-jerry-falwell-sun-belt
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Why is it okay to discriminate against Liberty because of their religious reviews on homosexuality? Why can't homosexuals accept that you can accept them without believing that their lifestyle is approved by God? Most homosexuals don't even believe in God, so why would it even be an issue? Aren't homosexuals basically taking the same discriminatory position by saying that believing the Christian values that Liberty has is not okay? Good grief.....all they want to do is join a conference and play sports.
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# members in G5 cons:
AAC 12
CUSA 14 (add or subtract or both ???)
MAC 12
MWC 12
SUN 12
idk, do any of the current above members speak out strongly/brashly/fervently on social, religious and political issues?
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Marshall is investing a lot of money in recruitment. I'll be surprised if it doesn't grow at least a little bit by next year.
Problem is, Maniac, is if you go walking around MU's campus the sounds of SILENCE are overwhelming. Meaning that MU is right now, and for the immediate future, apparently, not investing ANYTHING in Capital improvements, repairs, renovations, etc. Five years into its 10 year campus master plan approved in 2013, and the school has not undertaken, started, or even approved ANY new major capital projects. First priority was to be a major expansion and renovation of the Memorial Student Center, a dated facility virtually unchanged since being built in the early 1970s.
When it comes to capital projects and improvements, Maniace, it is also true if you are doing nothing and standing still, you are in reality FALLING BEHIND contemporary and competing institutions!
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Im expecting colleges and universities in the near future to be almost exclusively , online . The actual brick and mortar institutions will be a thing of the past sooner than later . I would like to see MU embrace the changed and funnel money into online courses , with a solid plan for the next ten years to go even further away from actual campuses . I personally don't like that idea but I do think that's where higher education is headed. The only thing for students to actually see on a campus will be athletic events .
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Im expecting colleges and universities in the near future to be almost exclusively , online . The actual brick and mortar institutions will be a thing of the past sooner than later . I would like to see MU embrace the changed and funnel money into online courses , with a solid plan for the next ten years to go even further away from actual campuses . I personally don't like that idea but I do think that's where higher education is headed. The only thing for students to actually see on a campus will be athletic events .
Online is a predominantly an "older" demographic. Out of over 50 million people enrolled in online classes, the average age is 34. The 18-22 demo will for quite some time be interested in partying, which is an essential part of what they are looking forward to. While some 18-22 years olds do take online classes, rarely are they interested in completing entire degrees online. They want the campus experience and the rituals and I don't see that going away soon. Earning a degree is the secondary interest for many 18-22 students. It is the campus experience.
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Online is a predominantly an "older" demographic. Out of over 50 million people enrolled in online classes, the average age is 34. The 18-22 demo will for quite some time be interested in partying, which is an essential part of what they are looking forward to. While some 18-22 years olds do take online classes, rarely are they interested in completing entire degrees online. They want the campus experience and the rituals and I don't see that going away soon. Earning a degree is the secondary interest for many 18-22 students. It is the campus experience.
If online degrees are the only thing available , they'll have to go that route . I just hope the campus experience will be there , I personally don't think it will . MU needs to get a foot up on all this online stuff , hope they think forward for a change . The way things are changing so fast , who knows what anything is going to look like in ten years .
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If online degrees are the only thing available , they'll have to go that route . I just hope the campus experience will be there , I personally don't think it will . MU needs to get a foot up on all this online stuff , hope they think forward for a change . The way things are changing so fast , who knows what anything is going to look like in ten years .
I don't see how any academic discipline that requires hands on activities, like lab work in various sciences, engineering, medical fields, etc., can be exclusively obtained "on line". No doubt many "lecture" type classes can be on line but if the class then requires students to perform practical lab work, there are going to have to be brick and mortar facilities for the foreseeable future.
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Typical CUSA trash
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Problem is, Maniac, is if you go walking around MU's campus the sounds of SILENCE are overwhelming. Meaning that MU is right now, and for the immediate future, apparently, not investing ANYTHING in Capital improvements, repairs, renovations, etc. Five years into its 10 year campus master plan approved in 2013, and the school has not undertaken, started, or even approved ANY new major capital projects. First priority was to be a major expansion and renovation of the Memorial Student Center, a dated facility virtually unchanged since being built in the early 1970s.
When it comes to capital projects and improvements, Maniace, it is also true if you are doing nothing and standing still, you are in reality FALLING BEHIND contemporary and competing institutions!
Well, I do walk around the campus every single day. I'll grant you that that improvements and new buildings have slowed a bit but in the past ten years, the improvements and new buildings on campus have been overwhelming. Heck, since I was a student there are at least 10 new buildings and that has only been since 2001. In a state like West Virginia, I honestly believe Marshall has done a pretty daggone good job. I just hope that President Gilbert has the vision that Kopp did. So far, it seems that he will be pretty good.
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Why doesn't Marshall apply for membership in the Sun Belt, and leave the sinking ship of C-USA behind?
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Why doesn't Marshall apply for membership in the Sun Belt, and leave the sinking ship of C-USA behind?
C-USA and the SunBelt should disband then consolidate into 4 regional divisions with a playoff. Would save schools a ton in travel costs, and a 4 team playoff for League Champion would be different.
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Pinkerton99 you have your head on your shoulders correctly and Like the way you disect the problem!
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When was the engineering building built?
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When was the engineering building built?
It officially opened in 2015.
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and where'd they get all their cash? speculating; if CUSA surface investigated and followed the "earnings" they might have seen risk, potentially multiple conflicts of interest? they have after all, taken strong political positions.
which current member would be dropped to accommodate them? is it to be supposed that CUSA would be OK with and odd number of members or two additions to total 16? how far will $24M (tainted or not) carry CUSA in the big scheme?
I'm a Liberty Grad from the 90's. In response to Academic Reputation, I think it's getting better all the time. They are one of the top rated education majors in Virginia, have a legit engineering and law school, and their religion department is great and doesn't typically reflect the looniness of Jerry Falwell Jr.
In response to "where did they get the money"? They have one of the largest online degree programs in the country, and have been doing distance learning for at least 3 decades I think. Distance learning is their cash cow, and have been a huge blessing to military personnel and . On campus tuition room and board cost around $28,000 a year. Which is why my children will not follow in my footsteps to Liberty. That and the fact I'm not sure Jerry Jr. is an actual Christian.
Total enrollment exceeds 110,000
Military Students: over 30,000
International Students: over 900
In regards to their athletic, it was always the vision of Jerry Sr. that Liberty would one day be the Notre Dame of the Evangelical World, in academics and athletics. I'm from Huntingon and love Marshall, so I don't mean this as an insult, but I think in the long run there's a better likelihood of Liberty becoming a sustained football power than Marshall. My preference would be for Marshall to be a football dynamo and Liberty to be known for Christians who legitimately change the world through the love of Jesus, rather than Huntington being known for heroin and Liberty having a chancellor who comes off as a stooge for the president.
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It's your impression that he's a stooge for the President, others feel quite differently and would give him credit for being able to speak up for conservative values from a university setting.
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It's your impression that he's a stooge for the President, others feel quite differently and would give him credit for being able to speak up for conservative values from a university setting.
Conservative values at a university ? I believe the grads from Liberty are a lot more prepared for the real world than the safe place universities that are so popular these days . I think Liberty would be a great addition to CUSA . If I was Liberty , Id take the wait and see approach , something better may just be around the corner .
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Conservative values at a university ? I believe the grads from Liberty are a lot more prepared for the real world than the safe place universities that are so popular these days . I think Liberty would be a great addition to CUSA . If I was Liberty , Id take the wait and see approach , something better may just be around the corner .
I agree with the wait and see attitude. I suspect a few years down the road CUSA may look at this as an opportunity wasted. Liberty would have represented an upgrade for this conference.
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Liberty would have represented an upgrade for this conference.
Couldn't agree more .
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It's your impression that he's a stooge for the President, others feel quite differently and would give him credit for being able to speak up for conservative values from a university setting.
I think there were plenty of candidates running who not only shared conservative values but actually showed conservative ethics in their personal life. Could have picked several of them and he would have not lost so much credibility among alumni....
This thread got me looking at Liberty promo videos online. Holy cow that place has changed in the last 20 years! From a facilities standpoint, it's just so impressive. New dorms, new academic buildings, a year round snow-flex slope on campus, an indoor ice skating rink and olympic pool on campus, baseball complex, indoor practice facility. The football stadium needs upgrading but what they have is nice. By the looks, it doesn't look like they'd be hurting for the funds to do it. All of you who bought the Left Behind books, your money went to some good use ;). For real. Check out the LaHaye Recreation and Fitness Center.
It's a school with solid finances, a passion to make it, 4.5 hour drive from Marshall, and a growing alumni base of lawyers and engineers to go along with all of those pastors and school teachers. I think they would be a great addition to C-USA. Just bring your barf bag if you try to drive 501 South to get to campus.