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The place to talk Marshall University sports! => HerdFans => Topic started by: cincyherd on September 23, 2017, 06:50:17 PM
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I was going through the games on the tube this afternoon and TCU vs OSU caught my eye. I don't like TCU and was trying to remember the circumstances why I don't like them. Does this sound right?
The attack on 9/11 took place on a Tuesday. We opened at #1 Florida 12 days prior to 9/11. I think we had a by week 2.
Saturday after 9/11 we were to play at TCU but all US air space was closed for a week or so We didn't play the TCU game that year. It was a 1 and 1 with them. They were to come to Huntington the next year. They didn't come to Huntington.
My question is why they didn't come to the Joan.
I think they wanted us to go to their place the following year and play the first game. We wanted to play the game in Huntington as scheduled, and reschedule the first game.. I know there were "hard feelings" between the two schools over this and neither game was played.
Does anyone know the details of why the series didn't happen?
Goherd!!!
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That's about the size of it. If we went there first the next year it killed our home schedule and shorted us. Them coming here was business as usual but they got greedy and tried to leverage the attack to get an extra home game. They would have probably cancelled after we went there anyway if we'd decided to go there first. They didn't want any part of us in 2001 or 2002, I know that much.
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Thanks I still pull for whomever is playing them. Even WVU.
GoHerd!!!
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Thanks I still pull for whomever is playing them. Even WVU.
GoHerd!!!
I still cheer for Texas Cowards University to lose, but I can't go that far.
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Careful y'all.
I have been shouted down repeatedly for this stance. Even Dan Shoemaker chimed in with a lengthy post defending the actions of TCU.
I bought none of it, they wanted no part of facing an experienced Firin' Byron in my little mind.
One poster even asked why I "make stuff up" with written talk similar to your ideas about the shaft we got from TCU. I didn't bother to reply and my stance remains unchanged.
p2m
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Thanks I still pull for whomever is playing them. Even WVU.
GoHerd!!!
Not me, I hate the errdiots! If they played Criami, I'd be cheering for the Red Hawks to win that's how much I hate them!
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Get some sleep E-man !
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Realistically, I think I dislike them because things happened for the that didn't happen for us. In 2000 we were even or even slightly ahead of them as a program. Yes, it's plain old jealousy, but there it is. The same could be said for UCF. Despite what others will say, it wasn't Kayos fault, it was an exposure of underlying factors that have hampered us to this day and will likely continue to in the future. They have money and resources, we don't. Which doesn't mean we can't field a football team at times that can beat them.
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USPAM vs. The Third Reich? I'd have a hard time rooting for USPAM.
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Realistically, I think I dislike them because things happened for the that didn't happen for us. In 2000 we were even or even slightly ahead of them as a program. Yes, it's plain old jealousy, but there it is. The same could be said for UCF. Despite what others will say, it wasn't Kayos fault, it was an exposure of underlying factors that have hampered us to this day and will likely continue to in the future. They have money and resources, we don't. Which doesn't mean we can' field a football team at times that can beat them.
+1 That is it right there. No conspiracy. We just wish we had made better decisions that others made.
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+1 That is it right there. No conspiracy. We just wish we had made better decisions that others made.
I agree, but we just didn't have the gunpowder. You can choose to date a movie star, but....
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So Kayo told TCU "never mind" like he told Tennessee and (which other P5 team did he let off the hook from coming to Huntington?), and backing out on us going to LSU.
Kayo letting the TCU series not happen is the part of the story I didn't know about (or not remember). But still it sounds like they used the 9/11 attack to get out of come to Huntington.
I still always pull against them. They still have the same coach.
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I find it somewhat funny that people have all the negative vibes towards Liberty U. and their apparent bid to get into CUSA, mainly due to the ultra conservative nature of their religious leadership. But apparently the same people will look the way when the holier than thou Baptists at Baylor ran the sleaziest, anti female football program around and then tried to cover it all up with all their reams of church money. If truth be known, probably a lot of similar crap going on at the "esteemed" church affiliated school in Fort Worth (TCU).
Oh, and for all you younger folks in the crowd, this kind of stuff among the esteemed religious affiliated universities is NOT NEW. Go back and look about 30 years or so ago at the blatant, corrupt culture of cheating that went on at the vaunted Methodist institution in Dallas, TX: SMU. Read up on all the cheating, $$$ payoffs, etc., that went on when future pro players like Eric Dickerson and Craig James were leading the Mustangs to the top of the college football world, while the school's administration and alums in high political offices in Texas attempted to cover up the whole mess!
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MH lets start scheduling the Big 12 teams again and kick some of the Poultie conference members!
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Bob Marcum joined the Marshall athletic department July 1, 2002. The TCU situation already happened by then.
If you'll recall, everyone got to schedule 12 games in 2002 except Marshall couldn't find a replacement for TCU.
Others will know more about the inner-workings of that but regardless of fault, we suffered because of it.
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If you'll recall, everyone got to schedule 12 games in 2002 except Marshall couldn't find a replacement for TCU.
In 2002, Marshall scheduled and played 12 games plus a bowl game, in which we soundly defeated Louisville. We went 11-2, how did we suffer from it?
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In 2002, Marshall scheduled and played 12 games plus a bowl game, in which we soundly defeated Louisville. We went 11-2, how did we suffer from it?
I’m sure there’s someone who will remember more clearly than me. But we ended up scheduling a real dud of an opponent because we couldn’t reschedule a similar quality opponent. We felt going into the season we were going to be good and we believed we could beat anyone we played back then. We suffered because we were building a program and were denied an opportunity to show we belonged on the national stage.
Second, we suffered financially. Had the Cowards showed we would have drawn a huge crowd. Attendance and therefore $ would have been through the roof. AS it was we had to pay a money game for a lower tier school (I think it was a smaller West Virginia type school) to come and play a one and done game. Needless to say, attendance at the game was far less than it would have been against the Texas Cowards.
So, we lost money and we lost prestige.
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Bob Marcum joined the Marshall athletic department July 1, 2002. The TCU situation already happened by then.
If you'll recall, everyone got to schedule 12 games in 2002 except Marshall couldn't find a replacement for TCU.
Others will know more about the inner-workings of that but regardless of fault, we suffered because of it.
Lance West was the AD
The issues with TCU were "self-inflicted" and should not be blamed on TCU, period!
MU defeated ECU in the GMAC Bowl to end the season.
Certainly a shame that we didn't play the TCU series, but the tragedy of 9/11 and issues within the athletic department on how the messaging was handled, caused the series to be cancelled.
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I’m sure there’s someone who will remember more clearly than me. But we ended up scheduling a real dud of an opponent because we couldn’t reschedule a similar quality opponent. We felt going into the season we were going to be good and we believed we could beat anyone we played back then. We suffered because we were building a program and were denied an opportunity to show we belonged on the national stage.
Second, we suffered financially. Had the Cowards showed we would have drawn a huge crowd. Attendance and therefore $ would have been through the roof. AS it was we had to pay a money game for a lower tier school (I think it was a smaller West Virginia type school) to come and play a one and done game. Needless to say, attendance at the game was far less than it would have been against the Texas Cowards.
So, we lost money and we lost prestige.
I remember it very clearly:
I scheduled the series between MU and TCU. Lance West was the AD at MU and Eric Hyman (formerly at Furman, VMI and Miami, O) was the AD at TCU. Bob Pruett was at MU and Fran Franchione was the HC at TCU, I met with all four on multiple occasions both in Huntington and in Dallas/Fort Worth and with Coach Fran in Houston to get the games finalized. Unfortunately the communications between the two schools during the period after the attack on 9/11 led to some very hard feelings and the games were cancelled. I was not a part of those discussions as I was "stranded" in Puerto Rico during the attacks and the aftermath ...... but I was a "briefed" by both sides following the discussions. It was unfortunate that we could not salvage the relationship.
I was deeply involved with both programs during this period and felt like a series would be beneficial to both, and both Coach Pruett and Coach Fran were excited to play the games, good example though of how personalities and management styles can get in the way of a good idea. There was nothing sinister, no deep dark conspiracy, just a misunderstanding initiated by an poorly thought-out and poorly worded communication during a time of incredibly high stress in the country, prior to the NCAA stepping in and properly (in my opinion) cancelling all games that weekend.
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In 2002, Marshall scheduled and played 12 games plus a bowl game, in which we soundly defeated Louisville. We went 11-2, how did we suffer from it?
Marshall played in the MAC championship game for 12 and bowl for 13.
With a Top 20-25 team that had a Hesiman Trophy candidate who had one fewer game to play than he would have.
So you are wrong.
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Lance West was the AD
The issues with TCU were "self-inflicted" and should not be blamed on TCU, period!
MU picked up a late season game with Youngstown State (I believe this is accurate) to fill the void left by the TCU cancellation
MU defeated ECU in the GMAC Bowl to end the season.
Certainly a shame that we didn't play the TCU series, but the tragedy of 9/11 and issues within the athletic department on how the messaging was handled, caused the series to be cancelled.
All of this is correct for 2001. I was looking beyond that and the affect for 2002, when TCU was originally scheduled to play at Marshall. That game was not replaced.
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There is no scientific evidence to indicate that frogs favor any religion, much less Christianity, where they are considered a plague.
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There is no scientific evidence to indicate that frogs favor any religion, much less Christianity, where they are considered a plague.
What the H does this have to do with the topic, or any other topic for that matter?
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Bob Marcum joined the Marshall athletic department July 1, 2002. The TCU situation already happened by then.
If you'll recall, everyone got to schedule 12 games in 2002 except Marshall couldn't find a replacement for TCU.
Others will know more about the inner-workings of that but regardless of fault, we suffered because of it.
Woah woah woah...you can't tell them that Marcum wasn't at fault. That doesn't fit the narrative.
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Marshall played in the MAC championship game for 12 and bowl for 13.
With a Top 20-25 team that had a Hesiman Trophy candidate who had one fewer game to play than he would have.
So you are wrong.
I see now, you are correct about the number of games played. We lost to the one power team we played and we lost to Akron. Byron lost nothing as he got his 1st round draft pick, we won the MAC and we beat Louisville in the bowl. No loss suffered there. There was nothing lost so big that it can still be referenced 15 years later. We had a great year and were rewarded for it. We could have played and lost to TCU which would have been a negative on the year. No sinister conspiracies, no significant loss.
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I was deeply involved with both programs during this period and felt like a series would be beneficial to both, and both Coach Pruett and Coach Fran were excited to play the games, good example though of how personalities and management styles can get in the way of a good idea. There was nothing sinister, no deep dark conspiracy, just a misunderstanding initiated by an poorly thought-out and poorly worded communication during a time of incredibly high stress in the country, prior to the NCAA stepping in and properly (in my opinion) cancelling all games that weekend.
Dshoe, appreciate the additional insights here.
Can you add more thoughts on this such as to what the 'bad' communication contained (was the bad communication both sides or mostly MU's side?), was there any more attempt to clarify/negotiate exactly where the two universities stood on this and why (and just wondering if ESPN did/could have pushed this along further to take a second look), was there any higher level involvement between the two university presidents at the time to get them back to the discussion table, and would that have been helpful here?
Thanks for adding to this if you can. It may be water under the bridge now, but maybe we all learn from this how to prevent that bad water flow in the future.
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I see now, you are correct about the number of games played. We lost to the one power team we played and we lost to Akron. Byron lost nothing as he got his 1st round draft pick, we won the MAC and we beat Louisville in the bowl. No loss suffered there. There was nothing lost so big that it can still be referenced 15 years later. We had a great year and were rewarded for it. We could have played and lost to TCU which would have been a negative on the year. No sinister conspiracies, no significant loss.
Tell that to the 38,016 gate Marshall would have had for TCU.
And then forget the circumstances around TCU, that's a home gate that was gone. One more chance to see Byron? One more chance to be on ESPN perhaps? You can't tell me we lost nothing that year, which was my sole reference.
You're too busy wound up to argue than just seeing my very simple point.
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Tell that to the 38,016 gate Marshall would have had for TCU.
And then forget the circumstances around TCU, that's a home gate that was gone. One more chance to see Byron? One more chance to be on ESPN perhaps? You can't tell me we lost nothing that year, which was my sole reference.
You're too busy wound up to argue than just seeing my very simple point.
I don't get wound up. I'm not arguing, just responding to your post.
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What the H does this have to do with the topic, or any other topic for that matter?
When I was in church as a kid it always freaked me out when people would say "what the H" or "H-E-double-hockeysticks." Kind of a terrifying belief system, where you have the Almighty create a pit of endless punishment, torture and despair, and then even a believer can get sent there just for saying the name of the place. That's some F'd up S.
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Dshoe, appreciate the additional insights here.
Can you add more thoughts on this such as to what the 'bad' communication contained (was the bad communication both sides or mostly MU's side?), was there any more attempt to clarify/negotiate exactly where the two universities stood on this and why (and just wondering if ESPN did/could have pushed this along further to take a second look), was there any higher level involvement between the two university presidents at the time to get them back to the discussion table, and would that have been helpful here?
Thanks for adding to this if you can. It may be water under the bridge now, but maybe we all learn from this how to prevent that bad water flow in the future.
It is definitely water under the bridge and then over the dam........ none of the people involved are at either university any longer at least not in the same capacity.
Suffice it to say, that TCU felt certain folks at Marshall handled some things very badly.....with no conversation or consultation with TCU's admin. Personalities (or lack of) got in the way. TCU AD reached out to me immediately, but the damage was done.
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So Shoe, you're saying that they didn't insist the first game still be played at TCU and we didn't tell them to pound sand? That's the only reason there could have been any misunderstanding. The contract (which you apparently wrote) stated the first game was to be played at TCU. Then the first game was cancelled and they tried to enforce that part of the contract rather than work within the spirit of the contract and events to keep the schedule intact and reschedule the first game at a point in the future. If they had said we're coming up there next year as planned and we'll figure out something for the original game, as you're insinuating, what could we have wrongly communicated other than "See ya then."
They wanted the first game and they wanted it despite what happened and we were screwed either way so we didn't reward them with getting their way. That's the only logical misunderstanding, which is actually perfectly clear, that could have occurred and it's was told to me by people that know, back then, despite whatever TCU's AD's damage control BS was relayed to you.
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So Shoe, you're saying that they didn't insist the first game still be played at TCU and we didn't tell them to pound sand? That's the only reason there could have been any misunderstanding. The contract (which you apparently wrote) stated the first game was to be played at TCU. Then the first game was cancelled and they tried to enforce that part of the contract rather than work within the spirit of the contract and events to keep the schedule intact and reschedule the first game at a point in the future. If they had said we're coming up there next year as planned and we'll figure out something for the original game, as you're insinuating, what could we have wrongly communicated other than "See ya then."
They wanted the first game and they wanted it despite what happened and we were screwed either way so we didn't reward them with getting their way. That's the only logical misunderstanding, which is actually perfectly clear, that could have occurred and it's was told to me by people that know, back then, despite whatever TCU's AD's damage control BS was relayed to you.
none of that is what happened
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I just know I bought 2 tickets that I never did get a refund for. >:(
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I just know I bought 2 tickets that I never did get a refund for. >:(
I don't think I did either
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I just know I bought 2 tickets that I never did get a refund for. >:(
I didn't get the refund for my three tickets.
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At this point, if any refunds were due, it well beyond any statute of limitations.
Get over it.
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Thank you Counselor
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Since the thread won't seem to die, let me chip in that, as I recall DS originally used TCU scheduling due to moving to a new conference as the primary problem. Maybe I am not reading well, but that issue seems to take a back seat in this thread to hard feelings developing, if even mentioned at all.
I feel certain that MU wanted to play them at least once with Firin' Byron at the helm and I don't think TCU wanted any part of that, but I am not in a position to know. I can see how MU could develop some bad feelings if the series was relegated to far in the future, especially with MU brass that must have been knowing dark clouds were just beginning to gather over our Program for 2003-2008.
Without checking, I believe that is was around this time that TCU suffered a home loss to a I-AA/FCS and sensitivities over thee could have been elevated because of it. Our such pooch-screw came later at the hands of NH when Snyder held Bernie Morris out too long.
2001-2002 was our time to shine, and the 2003/4 Herd was deep and talented ( led by the Father of Sacketry in Johnathan Goddard ) as evidenced by @OSU and @UGA, although our key MAC performances in ought-three and '04 left the conspiracy meter shaking violently.
p2m
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none of that is what happened
Yes, I'm sure the TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming with an ESPN producer after they torpedoed the deal he put together, especially given their desire to move into a bigger home for their program at that time.
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Yes, I'm sure the TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming with an ESPN producer after they torpedoed the deal he put together, especially given their desire to move into a bigger home for their program at that time.
Wow,
You are making a sarcastic assumption that not only is in error, but just plain doesn't apply and shows how little fans often really understand about the business of college athletics. For what it's worth, ESPN had nothing to do with scheduling this series, it was entirely about personal relationships with the people involved. Unfortunately on 9/11 i became stranded in Puerto Rico for 5 days initally with no communications with the US, Eric Hyman Tried to involve me, an issue initiated by MU AD and his "communications style", resulted in a falling out between the two that became unrepairable.
I have no desire to rehash this's, but suffice it to say that MU lost a golden opportunity to advance the program and a relationship at a critical time in the program's evolution
And oh yes, The TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming about the issue including sharing first hand some of the exchanges.....i saw and heard the "originals"
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Wow,
You are making a sarcastic assumption that not only is in error, but just plain doesn't apply and shows how little fans often really understand about the business of college athletics. For what it's worth, ESPN had nothing to do with scheduling this series, it was entirely about personal relationships with the people involved. Unfortunately on 9/11 i became stranded in Puerto Rico for 5 days initally with no communications with the US, Eric Hyman Tried to involve me, an issue initiated by MU AD and his "communications style", resulted in a falling out between the two that became unrepairable.
I have no desire to rehash this's, but suffice it to say that MU lost a golden opportunity to advance the program and a relationship at a critical time in the program's evolution
And oh yes, The TCU AD was very honest and forthcoming about the issue including sharing first hand some of the exchanges.....i saw and heard the "originals"
Again, Marshall should have hired you as an athletic director. I have no doubt in my mind where our program would be right now had they made you the ad. I don't think the average Herd fan know's how well you're connected to the major networks. Prime example, when you part of the program in the 90's, we were always on TV. We never had a problem with exposure! In fact, we were on TV more than a lot of D-1 schools at that time.