Topic: Louisiana had a 40 member football support staff????

[Johnnyherd]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32799444/florida-gators-new-coach-billy-napier-plans-hire-unprecedented-support-staff

What?  How? 

We have 16 on our football support staff, including Graduate assistants and secretaries, which I thought was an embarrassment of riches for a small school to have and they have or had 40 on the payroll? 

Well they?ll definitely have several that know their offense, in light of their coach going to Florida.

But, seriously this support staff stuff needs limits, what?s to stop big schools from just hiring all the top coaches and putting them on the support staff?  Like before there were scholarships limits, when Bear Bryant at Alabama would offer 250 kids scholarships just so other schools wouldn?t have them on their teams.

[Toro Toro Taxi]

Its a southern school , they've always done stuff by their own rules and with paying players now legal , its open season on the rules . Bear Bryant did the over signing thing and Saban has mastered it .

[Johnnyherd]

Yeah something is afoul here.  The first thing I thought is,

 How much is their freaking budget to have an army of coaches, scouts and recruiters working behind the scenes? 

Answer, their budget is a lot less than ours and they are losing 6 to 8 million a year, every year!

So what in tarnation is going on down there?

[whf]

It would be very interesting to see the enrollment numbers during their recent run; I'm speculating the loss in football and athletics is an investment in student attraction and subsequent enrollment.  In the old days, milk and bread were used as loss-leaders in convenience stores to get folks to pay for all the other stuff at convenience store prices. I think sports/athletics are the same for colleges; it worked at MU for a while, but it only works when you're winning.

[wasbarryb]

I only see things getting worse.  Rich getting richer and the creation of a semi-professional league where college football used to exist.

And frankly I don't like it one damn bit.

[Johnnyherd]

It would be very interesting to see the enrollment numbers during their recent run; I'm speculating the loss in football and athletics is an investment in student attraction and subsequent enrollment.  In the old days, milk and bread were used as loss-leaders in convenience stores to get folks to pay for all the other stuff at convenience store prices. I think sports/athletics are the same for colleges; it worked at MU for a while, but it only works when you're winning.

That?s an interesting prospective, they do complete with La Tech and LSU for students.  They may have seen the intoxicating reaction to winning that LSU got with Joe Burrow and thought football is the way regardless of what it costs.

[chris88]

Unlimited off the field staffs was approved several years ago.  I've said on here many times, the dolts that voted for it within the P5 conferences signed their own death warrant.  It is just another crony capitalist way for the top 15 or so schools to separate themselves from other schools in their own conferences. The big boys knew it couldn't kick out the Wake Forests of the world but they could make it harder and harder for them to compete with what has now become Clemson incorporated.  Clemson was spending something like an extra 3M a year on support staff.  Not many, if any, other ACC schools could match that.  Florida State is not the same as it was for many reasons. One being that Tallahassee is not a great place to live (high crime etc). So Clemson has a down year (for them) and Wake and NC State? play for title. But neither had any shot at CFP.

The separation in Big10 has become more extreme too. And now that Michigan is back expect pretty much only the unlimited resource schools of Penn State, OSU, Mich to compete for playoff spots.  Pac12 is a mess.  The SEC just gets stronger as there at least 7-8 unlimited resource programs in it for FB. New Big12 will be interesting as now it becomes pretty homogeneous. No mega power, unlimited resource teams. The hope for many, of course, is they become like the PAC12....irrelevant.

ESPN and guys like Herbstreet act like the bastion of morality and fairness off field but they have had the most influence in creating the changes that have ruined college football.  Him saying yesterday "where are all the people who said a G5 would never get in". It took an extraordinary stroke of lucky circumstances that allowed Cincy in and if they could have kept them out they would have.  Herby's own school has been the benefit of that bias even vs other P5 schools. Hint:  They don't want schools like Wake Forest, North Carolina, Baylor, WVU, Vanderbilt, Iowa, Indiana, Purdue etc any more than they want Cincy, Boise, UCF etc. Why? Because the 15 or so unlimited budget mega FB schools have bigger fanbases, bigger donors, and more eyes for TV, merchandise etc. Herby is either dumb or completely full of crap.  It was never about fairness or crowning a legit champ and all about consolidating power and putting money in the pockets of the power brokers of the sport...like Jim Delaney, people at ESPN, the people that run the bigger bowls, and those top programs.

There used to be about 40 destination jobs in college football, now there are maybe 15.  The money is there at more schools to live happily ever after but your shot to play for a national title is mostly restricted to those about 15 schools. And all 15 of those schools think they should be in playoff every year and winning it all every few years. The other 100+ schools, most years, are playing in D1b

[Johnnyherd]

I could write a book on the bullish!t and hypocrisy of Herbstreit.  It makes me mad thinking about it honestly.


But, but back to our bowl opponent and future conference peer Louisiana.  My mind is still blown.

I?m seriously wondering if it was worth it. 

On the front end, they won a conference championship, got a national ranking, got a bunch of national publicity and coverage as a top 25 school, they probably got in the discussions (not seriously) of the schools that matter in 2021, but they got their coach poached, lost 6 million dollars and the college football market has been so sub divided up that they play the 4th place CUSA team in a bowl.

I want to know if on the back end, are they gaining students or private donations or what?

[HerdEcon]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32799444/florida-gators-new-coach-billy-napier-plans-hire-unprecedented-support-staff

But, seriously this support staff stuff needs limits, what?s to stop big schools from just hiring all the top coaches and putting them on the support staff?  Like before there were scholarships limits, when Bear Bryant at Alabama would offer 250 kids scholarships just so other schools wouldn?t have them on their teams.

First, I agree that that this Support Staff stuff need limits.  However, this has been going on at larger or wealthier programs for years.  Many H/C coaches and coordinators that are fired will quickly find jobs as Consultants or Offensive/Defensive/Special Teams Quality Control analysis with P5 or wealthy G5 programs. 

Middle of the road and poor G5 programs are at a huge disadvantage when they face large or wealth P5 programs.  Not just from a talent stand point but starting with game preparation days, weeks or months before the actual game.  Much of the preparation, scouting, game planning, scheming, and etc. is performed by consultants or Quality Control specialists at the Alabama's, Ohio State's and other P5 schools. 

The coaching staffs at poor G5 schools have to do all the work that consultants or Quality Control specialists do while they are also Coaching.  P5 programs will know a coach or teams tendencies well in advance of the games thanks to the work of these consultants.  The coaching staff can take the work of the consultants and focus on coaching.  If Coach Huff wants to plan ahead and know the tendencies of a opposing teams QB, LBs, defensive scheme, red zone offense or head coach he better have a few extra hours in the day to figure it out on his own. 

P5 programs even have consultants that will watch for and report their own habits or tendencies so that opposing coaches can't take advantage of it. 

If you've ever watched the movie Moneyball it's a lot like the movie but more involved.  NCAA limits the number of coaches on the field and even the number of headsets during games but they don't limit the number of consultants or quality control folks.

I thought this was all common knowledge.  Imagine the number of recruits a school with 40 consultants or quality control specialists can evaluate a year.  They can't have contact with the recruit but they can scout potential recruits, go to games, watch film, give recommendations to the HC, and etc.             

[chris88]

First, I agree that that this Support Staff stuff need limits.  However, this has been going on at larger or wealthier programs for years.  Many H/C coaches and coordinators that are fired will quickly find jobs as Consultants or Offensive/Defensive/Special Teams Quality Control analysis with P5 or wealthy G5 programs. 

Middle of the road and poor G5 programs are at a huge disadvantage when they face large or wealth P5 programs.  Not just from a talent stand point but starting with game preparation days, weeks or months before the actual game.  Much of the preparation, scouting, game planning, scheming, and etc. is performed by consultants or Quality Control specialists at the Alabama's, Ohio State's and other P5 schools. 

The coaching staffs at poor G5 schools have to do all the work that consultants or Quality Control specialists do while they are also Coaching.  P5 programs will know a coach or teams tendencies well in advance of the games thanks to the work of these consultants.  The coaching staff can take the work of the consultants and focus on coaching.  If Coach Huff wants to plan ahead and know the tendencies of a opposing teams QB, LBs, defensive scheme, red zone offense or head coach he better have a few extra hours in the day to figure it out on his own. 

P5 programs even have consultants that will watch for and report their own habits or tendencies so that opposing coaches can't take advantage of it. 

If you've ever watched the movie Moneyball it's a lot like the movie but more involved.  NCAA limits the number of coaches on the field and even the number of headsets during games but they don't limit the number of consultants or quality control folks.

I thought this was all common knowledge.  Imagine the number of recruits a school with 40 consultants or quality control specialists can evaluate a year.  They can't have contact with the recruit but they can scout potential recruits, go to games, watch film, give recommendations to the HC, and etc.             

Exactly right. But most of P5 schools not in those 15 can't compete either. Their solace is they get a nice revenue sharing check from their league. For G5's the only solace is they can actually play for a conf championship if they run their program well. Professional teams don't have the support staff that these 15 or so programs do. Even Bill Legg got a job at Miss St in some type of quality control capacity after leaving MU and i'll guess he probably was making a nice chunk of money to do so. It's completely out of control and likely to get worse.

[Johnnyherd]

When we talk about game prep, I always think about film analysis and math analytics. 

I watched a feature on Drew Breeze and NFL QBs in general that they basically watch every piece of film on their opponent and break it down and memorize it.  I think it?s common knowledge that this happens, but I don?t think people realize the amount of hours is spent doing it and the huge advantages film preparation gives.

I seem to remember Chad being exceptional at gaining advantages through film.  Obviously he would be a great choice for our support.  Does he have another son that plays QB that he wants to coach in high school? 

Secondly, like anything there will be a point of diminishing returns, as in too many chiefs in the kitchen.

Unless you use them as sort of quasi private investigators.   I wonder if the fact the we didn?t have ESPN archived game footage held us back in out of conference scheduling.  As in P5 hesitating to sign multi year deals with us because our game footage isn?t always available.

Finally I hope we have good analytical tools and Reasources.

Think these areas are definitely something we should make sure we are keeping up and even exploit if it helps us win.

[MUther]

ESPN and guys like Herbstreet act like the bastion of morality and fairness off field but they have had the most influence in creating the changes that have ruined college football.  Him saying yesterday "where are all the people who said a G5 would never get in". It took an extraordinary stroke of lucky circumstances that allowed Cincy in and if they could have kept them out they would have.  Herby's own school has been the benefit of that bias even vs other P5 schools. Hint:  They don't want schools like Wake Forest, North Carolina, Baylor, WVU, Vanderbilt, Iowa, Indiana, Purdue etc any more than they want Cincy, Boise, UCF etc. Why? Because the 15 or so unlimited budget mega FB schools have bigger fanbases, bigger donors, and more eyes for TV, merchandise etc. Herby is either dumb or completely full of crap.  It was never about fairness or crowning a legit champ and all about consolidating power and putting money in the pockets of the power brokers of the sport...like Jim Delaney, people at ESPN, the people that run the bigger bowls, and those top programs.

That may be their thinking but they are completely wrong.  I will watch Cincinnati play.  I haven't watched the playoffs since maybe the first one.  They underestimate the power of the Cinderella to draw peoples attention.  I think they'll see that when the ratings come out for the playoffs.  Half will be watching to see Alabama destroy Cincinnati and put rest to this idea of G5 inclusion.  The other half will be hoping Cincy wins and shows that they belong.  Either way a lot will be watching this game.  It's the first shot in the arm to make the playoffs interesting in forever, except to the fans of participating schools.

[whf]

Reply #11 on: Today at 02:01:04 AM ?   Hey MUther, want me to send you some sleeping pills? Hehe...