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The Green and White Sector
The place to talk Marshall University sports! => HerdFans => Topic started by: biggreenarms on January 16, 2018, 07:47:55 AM
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West Virginia’s Will Grier decided in December to return for his senior year, and all parties concerned will benefit. Grier will avoid jostling with a loaded quarterback class in the draft and throw to David Sills for another 200 touchdowns. In the process, the Mountaineers should win 10-plus games and Grier may become a first-round pick.
Marshall’s Chase Litton hasn’t shown he is worthy of carrying Grier’s shoulder pads, but he had an opportunity to have a great senior year. He had an offensive line that has generally mastered pass-blocking, one NFL-caliber receiver and three other proven pass catchers, plus at least two solid running backs.
Instead, Litton is heading to the NFL jungle. I probably shouldn’t be surprised, but I am.
https://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports/marshall_university/doug-smock-chase-litton-s-choice-a-puzzling-one/article_be14122e-47f8-5550-929f-11bf8951b6ae.html
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https://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports/marshall_university/doug-smock-chase-litton-s-choice-a-puzzling-one/article_be14122e-47f8-5550-929f-11bf8951b6ae.html
A Smock article of substance. Hell must have froze over with Huntington. If Smock can stay away from the fluff, rainbows, and butterflies, stop attacking fans, and maybe ask one tough question per press conference...he may just have a career in this one day.
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A Smock article of substance. Hell must have froze over with Huntington. If Smock can stay away from the fluff, rainbows, and butterflies, stop attacking fans, and maybe ask one tough question per press conference...he may just have a career in this one day.
His articles have been so Herd Athletic Department centric lately I suspect this article shows Doc, Hamwreck, and company is really pissed at Litton's decision.
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His articles have been so Herd Athletic Department centric lately I suspect this article shows Doc, Hamwreck, and company is really pissed at Litton's decision.
Good point...that could be it as well. Maybe just same old Smock...venting for the stooges. Him leaving does put the pressure on Doc and company BIG TIME. In my opinion we went from a shot at a 12-0 season...to having no chance against the P5 teams we play and maybe losing up to 6 games as we break in a new QB. Big difference.
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Everybody should be pissed at this decision. Leaves the team in a lurch with a season that could be epic. Further, if you are a Chase fan, he is making a huge mistake, one that will probably ruin his chances at an NFL career.
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Chase did not make a logical decision. This seems more of a something behind the scenes related decision. The team would have been better with Chase returning as QB, and Chase would have been better ready for an NFL opportunity.
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I stand by the thought that he knew who our OC would be or at least the 2-3 being seriously considered, saw their schemes and what role the QB played, knew it wasn't a good fit and that he would likely lose his job. Legg prolly coddled him and he knew that wouldn't be the case going forward. jmo
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Before I make my point, I do not believe CL is ready for a shot at making an NFL roster at this time. He'd be better off demonstrating, that as a 4-year senior, he was capable & ready to run what ever system he played in & that he was smart & mature enough to run a new-to-him offense.
But, let's look at CL's situation through Litton & his camp's eyes:
Their point could be that he may not have come close to realizing his potential under Doc's watch. With threeyears with Legg as the QB coach, he still falls into incredibly bad habits come game time. He & his people may have no confidence in Doc's ability to hire a great QB coach & OC; therefore, CL would be better served improving his skills with one of the private QB tutors.
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Before I make my point, I do not believe CL is ready for a shot at making an NFL roster at this time. He'd be better off demonstrating, that as a 4-year senior, he was capable & ready to run what ever system he played in & that he was smart & mature enough to run a new-to-him offense.
But, let's look at CL's situation through Litton & his camp's eyes:
Their point could be that he may not have come close to realizing his potential under Doc's watch. With threeyears with Legg as the QB coach, he still falls into incredibly bad habits come game time. He & his people may have no confidence in Doc's ability to hire a great QB coach & OC; therefore, CL would be better served improving his skills with one of the private QB tutors.
Actually last year he had a real QB for his coach. Goebbel was his coach and he played QB at Kent State
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Actually last year he had a real QB for his coach. Goebbel was his coach and he played QB at Kent State
Right. And that's the strongest argument against hiring Goebbel for the OC position.
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Right. And that's the strongest argument against hiring Goebbel for the OC position.
+1
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I honestly don't understand why people keep blaming the coaches for Litton's problems. It is not coaching. You simply can't coach toughness in the pocket. That is something you have or don't have. That isn't a knock on the kid, but just the truth. His trouble was getting antsy in the pocket and quickly throwing off his back foot or dropping his shoulder and side arming a pass up for grabs. Chase had all the physical tools and threw a really nice ball when he stepped into his throws. But you can't teach what he didn't have.
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I honestly don't understand why people keep blaming the coaches for Litton's problems. It is not coaching. You simply can't coach toughness in the pocket. That is something you have or don't have. That isn't a knock on the kid, but just the truth. His trouble was getting antsy in the pocket and quickly throwing off his back foot or dropping his shoulder and side arming a pass up for grabs. Chase had all the physical tools and threw a really nice ball when he stepped into his throws. But you can't teach what he didn't have.
Chase's bad mechanics was more mental than anything. Remember the N.C State, and Cincy games? Chase was on fire and right on target. I hate to see Chase leave, everything happens for a reason. If Isaiah Green steps up and have a great season, Chase will be forgotten about real quick.
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Chase's bad mechanics was more mental than anything. Remember the N.C State, and Cincy games? Chase was on fire and right on target. I hate to see Chase leave, everything happens for a reason. If Isaiah Green steps up and have a great season, Chase will be forgotten about real quick.
That is my point. When he felt the pocket getting small he got rid of the ball and made some bad throws and decisions. It was beyond obvious to me. But that is just the way I saw it.
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Before I make my point, I do not believe CL is ready for a shot at making an NFL roster at this time. He'd be better off demonstrating, that as a 4-year senior, he was capable & ready to run what ever system he played in & that he was smart & mature enough to run a new-to-him offense.
But, let's look at CL's situation through Litton & his camp's eyes:
Their point could be that he may not have come close to realizing his potential under Doc's watch. With threeyears with Legg as the QB coach, he still falls into incredibly bad habits come game time. He & his people may have no confidence in Doc's ability to hire a great QB coach & OC; therefore, CL would be better served improving his skills with one of the private QB tutors.
I certainly see your point. But athletes in all sports work with private coaches all the time. It's done in middle school, high school, college and the Pro's. If Chase wanted to improve that much, he and his family would have sought the services of a coach/tutor to help improve in all facets of the game. Did they? Not sure.
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I honestly don't understand why people keep blaming the coaches for Litton's problems. It is not coaching. You simply can't coach toughness in the pocket. That is something you have or don't have. That isn't a knock on the kid, but just the truth. His trouble was getting antsy in the pocket and quickly throwing off his back foot or dropping his shoulder and side arming a pass up for grabs. Chase had all the physical tools and threw a really nice ball when he stepped into his throws. But you can't teach what he didn't have.
You raise a lot of issues, and I could go on and on about it. But suffice it to say the first layer of blame I place upon the coaches is trying to squeeze a non-running QB into a zone-read system. Whether Chase couldn't run, wouldn't run, or whatever... it was obvious he wasn't going to run. So defenses could key on the "give" and commit nothing to the "read". If the Herd offense ran that play on first down, the result would typically be second and long. On second and long, defense could pin their ears back and rush the passer. Same on third and long.
When you combine an offense which is being dictated to by the defense with the fact that our passing scheme was very, very basic... that compounded the problems. Now you have a qb who doesn't seem to enjoy being hit... getting hit more often than he should have.
Like I said, that's just the tip of the iceberg. No need to elaborate further.
Best of luck to Bill Legg and to Chase!
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Everyone said we should be stacked next year and ready to win. I said with our attrition we would likely lose some key players that would leave people saying next year again next year. And here we are. However, Chase came in his freshman year and we won a lot of games. No reason Green or Morrell (with game experience) couldn't have a breakout first year. The real question is who else leaves before we see a single down next year?
If we keep our line and the rest of our receivers and our running backs, and the defense remains mainly intact with some improvements in secondary, we should be left only needing to have a system that fits one of our 3-4 QB options. The main problem with losing Chase is the domino effect. Who else decides to go? One big rat jumped ship and that makes all the other rats a little nervous.
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The kid made a decision I should’ve made my junior year. You live and learn. Best of luck. #HerdForever
This was posted by Devon Johnson on Twitter.
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The kid made a decision I should’ve made my junior year. You live and learn. Best of luck. #HerdForever
This was posted by Devon Johnson on Twitter.
DJ's situation is totally different. And only time will tell if Chase made the right one just like it was time that proved DJ made the wrong one. There is no guarantee had he went after his junior year that his career would have been any more successful. But, it's obvious his position on the food chain coming out would have been higher for DJ without the injury.
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The kid made a decision I should’ve made my junior year. You live and learn. Best of luck. #HerdForever
This was posted by Devon Johnson on Twitter.
Then again, if DJ would have remained healthy and had a monster Senior season he would have been in a great draft position.
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That is my point. When he felt the pocket getting small he got rid of the ball and made some bad throws and decisions. It was beyond obvious to me. But that is just the way I saw it.
When feeling the pocket getting small was further compounded by Chase's nearly total inability or inclination to tuck the ball and run. You see it every game, almost, in the NFL or high level FBS college ball: a normally classic pocket QB bringing the ball down and making a key play, or plays, with his feet. This factor, lack of almost any running from Chase, was NOT LOST on most of the better D coordinators at MU's foes. Result was perhaps even greater pressure on him in the pocket trying to throw.
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I have been told the team, well the majority, like his decision.
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I have been told the team, well the majority, like his decision.
And would that because they're hoping for his future success in life or are they just glad to see him gone?
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Interesting how quickly people warm up to Smock when he dares to talk about herd fans and agrees with them... but that when he doesn't, he's unprofessional and a not so smart. Ain't it?
Well, I... still... think Smock is a very substantive, compelling writer... and offers some strong points... but.
But while I'll stop well short of saying anything close to the conclusion that Chase should have made the decision he did, I believe Smock would have been better to have recognized that there's a stronger argument for Chase's decision than what he acknowledges here. For instance, that the history that says if you're one of the top 12-ish QBs there's an awful good chance you're going to be, at minimum, on an NFL practice squad as UFA, and with a strong combine, potentially even sneak into the back of the draft.
And that a relative bird in the hand is not necessarily inferior to two in the bush. (Rockhead evidently tweeted today to concur with that.)
Right now, the first takes by actual people employed in the scouting profession appear to rank him in the 8-12 range.
It's just not as cut-and-dried as Smock suggests with the factoids he's cherry-picked. But maybe... maybe... this is all a ploy because he's secretly under mandate from his boss to make kissy face with the herd fans (?).
We're all certainly allowed to have our opinions, but Chase has to look out for Chase and make the best decisions for his future as he sees fit. We say that all the time about this player and that player who leaves our program prematurely. Doesn't apply any less for him as far as I'm concerned.
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Everyone said we should be stacked next year and ready to win. I said with our attrition we would likely lose some key players that would leave people saying next year again next year. And here we are. However, Chase came in his freshman year and we won a lot of games. No reason Green or Morrell (with game experience) couldn't have a breakout first year. The real question is who else leaves before we see a single down next year?
If we keep our line and the rest of our receivers and our running backs, and the defense remains mainly intact with some improvements in secondary, we should be left only needing to have a system that fits one of our 3-4 QB options. The main problem with losing Chase is the domino effect. Who else decides to go? One big rat jumped ship and that makes all the other rats a little nervous.
Morrell, if he even sniffs starting at QB, we are in real trouble, and might as well hang it up. I hope Green is good.
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Did he pass last semester? Just asking.
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Smock was on the Paul Swann Sports Talk yesterday and said Legg was Chase's biggest supporter in the program that his family had a reputation as being hard to deal with, especially his brother, who Smock said he had to block on Twitter. Helicopter was the term thrown out. No wonder Doc was afraid to pull him, they may have pulled a Gullooli on him.
Time to move on to bigger and better things for MU football. Hell, I may get season tix even though I am not sure I'll be able to make any games next fall due to being in NC and my daughter playing college soccer.
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I've said what my thoughts were on his current chances and hoped he stayed to improve them, but looks like he has signed with an agent. Hope he makes it, and looking forward to a new QB race.
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Just my humble opinion, but having gone to several of last years spring practices; I personally thought GREEN was the best QB on the field. At least in practices, going against our number 1 offense, he had more accuracy, more speed & quickness, better ability to make the D miss, and seemed to always move the O better down the field.
I honestly thought he would be the starter going into the season. Boy was I wrong about that. Most of the fans watching, felt the same way, it seemed to me. Whether it be a graduate transfer or not, I think the Herd will be in good hands because it will take a good QB to take the position away from Green; and NO, I do not know the young man; just my observations.
Now will that transfer to actual game play, we'll see, but he has the potential to be a really good herd QB.
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Went to the spring game in the IAF last year, thought Gaines was doing a great job with his chances. Then got a program and realized I was watching Green. While I wouldn't say he did better than Chase, he sure got a lot of throws in that practice / scrimmage and made some pretty impressive plays.
After that practice I fully understood when the moves Gaines to TE as his results were considerably less effective than either Green or Morrell.
I think we'll be OK with either Green or Morrell, but hope they make the "starter" decision earlier than fall camp so that much effort can be applied to getting the "starter" really ready for the season. August 1 will be too late, regardless of who is chosen.
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I have much respect for Morrell. He showed more leadership, integrity and
raw guts in one game than Chase Litton did in three years.
A QB can make or break a coaching career. Ask Bill Legg.
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Just my humble opinion, but having gone to several of last years spring practices; I personally thought GREEN was the best QB on the field. At least in practices, going against our number 1 offense, he had more accuracy, more speed & quickness, better ability to make the D miss, and seemed to always move the O better down the field.
I honestly thought he would be the starter going into the season. Boy was I wrong about that. Most of the fans watching, felt the same way, it seemed to me. Whether it be a graduate transfer or not, I think the Herd will be in good hands because it will take a good QB to take the position away from Green; and NO, I do not know the young man; just my observations.
Now will that transfer to actual game play, we'll see, but he has the potential to be a really good herd QB.
Thanks for your observations, too, I haven't given up on Morrell by any means. I know I am likely in the minority, but I do not want a one and done. Let Green get the experience he needs, if that involves growing pains let it happen, then we will be set for the future.
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I stand by the thought that he knew who our OC would be or at least the 2-3 being seriously considered, saw their schemes and what role the QB played, knew it wasn't a good fit and that he would likely lose his job. Legg prolly coddled him and he knew that wouldn't be the case going forward. jmo
Legg was not the one who coddled him from what I heard.
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Perhaps the biggest impact of Litton's early departure will be on the depth at the QB spot. This could add some wrinkles for the new OC and coaches on offense when their plate is already loaded. Doc would be smart to bring in a JUCO or grad transfer if there are any out there worthy of a shot. At the least Doc should try to use the opening to bring in a highly talented HS prospect in the late recruiting period if there are any left.
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Legg was not the one who coddled him from what I heard.
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You are right, maybe Doc as well. Just going on what Smock said, he should know, he's around the program every day.
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Morrell, if he even sniffs starting at QB, we are in real trouble, and might as well hang it up. I hope Green is good.
I don't see how you could say that based on what we saw in '16. Morrell lost 2 games vs Louisville and WKU. Chase lost 7 against some of the worst teams in FBS that year and would have lost the same two Morrell did just as badly. I'm willing to give anyone a chance if they earn it.
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I don't see how you could say that based on what we saw in '16. Morrell lost 2 games vs Louisville and WKU. Chase lost 7 against some of the worst teams in FBS that year and would have lost the same two Morrell did just as badly. I'm willing to give anyone a chance if they earn it.
Because morrell short hopped receivers by 10 yards like birdsong, and also threw it 20 yards over there head, and had a hand full of accurate throws. Its immediately clear that he is a bad QB to almost anyone i believe. Chase had his issues, but he ended up as one of our best all time statistically, and has the tools to succeed. Morrell. Is. Bad. Period.
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Diff might not be night and day after one more yr of development but I wonder based on the Green HS vid if he got to run a pass happy O moreso than GM. And it is pure bias but I figure he runs better also, The practice guys have all been impressed.
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Because morrell short hopped receivers by 10 yards like birdsong, and also threw it 20 yards over there head, and had a hand full of accurate throws. Its immediately clear that he is a bad QB to almost anyone i believe. Chase had his issues, but he ended up as one of our best all time statistically, and has the tools to succeed. Morrell. Is. Bad. Period.
Considering the dude had one week to prepare for UL, the best team we've played in years; and one week to prepare for WKU after Chase bailed, that would have been expected, not hoped for, but expected.
On to bigger and better things for Herd football. I'm actually excited to see what the season brings.
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Because morrell short hopped receivers by 10 yards like birdsong, and also threw it 20 yards over there head, and had a hand full of accurate throws. Its immediately clear that he is a bad QB to almost anyone i believe. Chase had his issues, but he ended up as one of our best all time statistically, and has the tools to succeed. Morrell. Is. Bad. Period.
You also just described most of Litton's games. No one is buying the 60% (bleep) completion ratio. He stalled a lot of drives completing passes for no or little gain. Throwing to the right guy at the right time is more important than completion %. And YAC matters, too. Ball position upon completion leads to YAC. We rarely had any. Right into his junior year he was shorting or sailing passes. Did you just forget all the ints due to bad passes this year alone? You've got worse blinders than Doc when it comes to Litton.
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The simple fact is that Litton lacked the heart, guts and commitment to be a championship level QB at Marshall. I'm glad he's gone and my only regret is that Doc didn't pull Green's RS once we were eliminated from the east race to let him get some experience.
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The simple fact is that Litton lacked the heart, guts and commitment to be a championship level QB at Marshall. I'm glad he's gone and my only regret is that Doc didn't pull Green's RS once we were eliminated from the east race to let him get some experience.
That's a bit stronger than I'd put things. But you aren’t that far off from how I feel.
Given that he's made his choice I no longer have any interest in Mr. Litton. I don't care if he fails or succeeds. I certainly have nothing to gain by him failing if he does, so I simply don't care.
I wish I had more faith in Doc's ability to Identify and recruit diamonds in the rough, but I don’t. I wish I had more confidence that Doc’s staff would develop and improve our player’s, but I don’t.
Right now I’m willing to hold my breath and wait. If our next QB is our next great QB, I’ll be very happy. If our new coaching staff can energize the program, that will be great. If not then we need to clean house in a year or two.
In the world of stock investing there’s a saying “Hope is not a strategy”. That may be true in that world but, right now hope is all we Herd fans have to hold onto.
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Because morrell short hopped receivers by 10 yards like birdsong, and also threw it 20 yards over there head, and had a hand full of accurate throws. Its immediately clear that he is a bad QB to almost anyone i believe. Chase had his issues, but he ended up as one of our best all time statistically, and has the tools to succeed. Morrell. Is. Bad. Period.
Dumb post. Morrell played 2 games in 2016 as a true freshman. Go back and look up how many INTs Chad P. threw in his 1st start.
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Morrell had better spring game numbers last year than Litton or Gaines. Way too early to write him off. He's got an arm.
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Dumb post. Morrell played 2 games in 2016 as a true freshman. Go back and look up how many INTs Chad P. threw in his 1st start.
Agreed. The sample size on what we've seen on Morrell is too small to draw any conclusions. The Louisville D-Line was in his face at the snap of the ball and he was leading perhaps the most unmotivated Marshall team I've ever watched against WKU. He'll be given a shot at it come spring ball.
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Agreed. The sample size on what we've seen on Morrell is too small to draw any conclusions. The Louisville D-Line was in his face at the snap of the ball and he was leading perhaps the most unmotivated Marshall team I've ever watched against WKU. He'll be given a shot at it come spring ball.
And our coaching staff gave him zero chance for success.
Run 1st down - 1 yard
Run 2nd down - 1 yard
Pass 3rd down.
Every single time.
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Green's dual threat talent maybe the diff between the two
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Green's dual threat talent maybe the diff between the two
But I think Morrell is a scrambler. Kind of like an Andrew Luck type
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Aside:
I love how so many of these newer forum members are so independently minded, and disinclined to lock arms with any group think that had, imo, previously made for such an uninteresting board for so long.
It really adds to the flavor of things when people just post what they think and why they think it, without seeming to come at Topic X with some predisposition, either to agree with certain others or to disagree with certain others--ie, supporting the social club aspect of the board. And dare I say, I think it may have had some good effect on some of the more seasoned posters, too.
That's all. Go back to what you were doing, please. This is good stuff.
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I don't care if it's Morrell, Green, White, or some last second transfer. What's important to me is that at least one of them fits the scheme we will be adopting and is given ample opportunity to earn the position. And also it's important that if the chosen one doesn't show the aptitude or desire to maintain that starting position that we mix things up till we find the right combination.
The whole Chase is the starter because Chase is the starter thing really irked me. There are games where a player's performance requires them being taken out for a bit or a game or a season. I don't believe Chase ever should have been removed from his position permanently, but it was clear to most that there were times he needed to be taken out to get his composure, talk with QB coach about what was not going right, and any other myriad of reasons. Our starting QB should not be a delicate flower whose pride and self-worth would be at risk if they sat out a series after making some crucial mistakes. It's a team sport. You do what it takes for the sake of the team.
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Side note. As rumored FAU quarterback Driskel will not play again, will concentrate on academics.
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The reasons why are irrelevant, Litton is no longer under center and we have to move forward. I wish him the best, but I hope our next QB is more like Cato than Litton. Not his build or his style, but his heart. I can't remember a game that the Herd lost during Catos tenure that he wasn't bawling his eyes out. He left every single thing he had on the field every Saturday. He was a leader, and his team mates looked to him to deliver. I didn't feel an ounce of passion with Litton. He was stale, and for the most part disappointing. 3rd and long and you almost could guarantee we were going to come up short or turn the ball over. At least you could never count the offense out with Cato. If the next QB is anything like that, we will be alright.
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