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The Green and White Sector
The place to talk Marshall University sports! => HerdFans => Topic started by: chris88 on October 23, 2017, 08:47:56 AM
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National Ranks:
Offense
Yards Per Game 92nd
Points Per Game 67th (includes 5 non-offensive TDs)
1st Downs 85th
QB Rating 54th
Sacks Allowed 3rd
ST
Punting Ave 13th
ST Efficiency 8th
Defense
Yards Per Game 21st (315 ypg)
Points Per Game 8th (14.3 ppg)
Rushing YPG 15th (110 ypg)
Sacks Tied - 14th (22 sacks)
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not bad considering last yr. it appears our O is inching along and they'll have to continue to sort it out, to stay in the east mix. the risers always pick it up down the stretch. so if the D falls off a bit because the risers will want it as bad as us, the O has to make it up and ST has to keep executing as they've been doing. it is a stay ahead in points, no flash offensive team. i don't think FIU will be a pushover, thank goodness it's at home.
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So if our offense was Top 25 we would be a Top 10 team in the country.
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That makes it tough when the defense has the usual 'bad game' that hits most teams at some point in the season. Will the offense be able to bail us out? With the schedule getting more difficult in the second half of the season the offense will have to continue to improve.
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Offensive statistics are a bit offensive here (hehe). Actually, we all wonder where those would be if we actually tried to aggressively score by taking risks in the games we're in total control of after 2.5 to 3 quarters. They're at least a bit decieving because of our approach to the offensive games this year.
By the way, I'm convinced that the reason we are playing it so save on offense once the game is at hand is because we don't want to take any unnecessary risk in getting Chase hurt from pass rush, etc. We want him playing QB for the entire year without burning anyone's redshirt. Again, just my opinion but I truly believe it holds truth.
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I believe it to be a great point about protecting Chase. It seems boring to us fans but the alternative of getting him hurt unnecessarily is not worth the risk...great point that I had not thought of.
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I think it's bc we have a conservative/ball control offense. We are trying to win the time of possession each game. One hit can do in a qb and he gets hit. He could get hurt anytime doing anything.
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I think it's bc we have a conservative/ball control offense. We are trying to win the time of possession each game. One hit can do in a qb and he gets hit. He could get hurt anytime doing anything.
Even though the protection case makes some sense, I lean more in this direction. He rolls out and scrambles/options more this season than the previous 2. That puts him in more danger than before so who knows. I'd also add that it may have a lot to do with all the new pieces on O. Injury ridden line, new backs, all new WRs --- why we've more with Chek than we have been.
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i also have to ask (and i think it's been asked on her but i don't recall how that debate went) does a poker player show all his cards...is there some strategy going on? obviously you'd think we threw everything we had, were capable of at the time against NCST, right? did we use the whole book in all our wins, but especially our cusa wins? they have inserted some good looks, mostly designed for Yurachek, but some run plays as well. criticism is fair of Doc/Legg and O staff and philosophy...but i don't think they're stupid.
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Offensive statistics are a bit offensive here (hehe). Actually, we all wonder where those would be if we actually tried to aggressively score by taking risks in the games we're in total control of after 2.5 to 3 quarters. They're at least a bit decieving because of our approach to the offensive games this year.
By the way, I'm convinced that the reason we are playing it so save on offense once the game is at hand is because we don't want to take any unnecessary risk in getting Chase hurt from pass rush, etc. We want him playing QB for the entire year without burning anyone's redshirt. Again, just my opinion but I truly believe it holds truth.
Doc, and Legg have been way to conservative from day one even with great backup's. You can't worry about a QB getting hurt, that could happen anytime in a game. We should keep our foot on the pedal until teams surrender and give up. The problem with being "so conservative" is that you give teams a chance to get momentum and come back. Remember the Armed Forces Bowl Game with Maryland? we got way to conservative and it almost came back and bit us big time.
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E, I don't agree that we should keep our foot on the gas pedal when the game is well won. Will we lose once in a while like that, probably. But I do know what happened last year when Morrell tried his best; it wasn't nearly good enough due to practice and attention from the coaching staff.
And concerning rolling out of the pocket, etc.; that is actually to keep him from getting "posted", not more of a risk to him. Why do you think he has only ran the ball about 4 times this year? Our path to winning goes through Chase Litton right now, and I firmly believe the whole boring bullshix is due to keeping him upright. Afterall, look what happened last year...
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E, I don't agree that we should keep our foot on the gas pedal when the game is well won. Will we lose once in a while like that, probably. But I do know what happened last year when Morrell tried his best; it wasn't nearly good enough due to practice and attention from the coaching staff.
Here's what I'm saying, OK, We need to beat a team down so bad that they no longer have the will to stage or attempt a comeback, does that make sense to you? Once a game is out of reach then you can let up. What I've seen this year, and past years Doc, and Legg get way to conservative in the 2nd half. I'm sure that has to be a concern of yours as well.
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Saddest stat is 3rd in sacks allowed. That means Chase has all day to produce the rest of those sorry rankings. However, we have been using the running game to eat clock a lot (hell from halftime in some games) so he doesn't have a lot of opportunities to be sacked in the first place.
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So we don’t like the way we are WINNING.
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i also have to ask (and i think it's been asked on her but i don't recall how that debate went) does a poker player show all his cards...is there some strategy going on? obviously you'd think we threw everything we had, were capable of at the time against NCST, right? did we use the whole book in all our wins, but especially our cusa wins? they have inserted some good looks, mostly designed for Yurachek, but some run plays as well. criticism is fair of Doc/Legg and O staff and philosophy...but i don't think they're stupid.
I don’t think we showed our whole hand at NC St more so than they weren’t ready for Brady. That game has so many what ifs.
I wrote in the plus minus post Legg is showing several different looks. He’s also dialing them well! (think play action toss, Yurachek throw back) while we are boring as all get out at times he’s making you practice for everything this year.
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E, I don't agree that we should keep our foot on the gas pedal when the game is well won. Will we lose once in a while like that, probably. But I do know what happened last year when Morrell tried his best; it wasn't nearly good enough due to practice and attention from the coaching staff.
And concerning rolling out of the pocket, etc.; that is actually to keep him from getting "posted", not more of a risk to him. Why do you think he has only ran the ball about 4 times this year? Our path to winning goes through Chase Litton right now, and I firmly believe the whole boring bullshix is due to keeping him upright. Afterall, look what happened last year...
While I agree all of our laurels rest on Litton's health, we'll have to agree to disagree on the rollouts etc. Has 14 recorded rushing attempts, btw and a rollout only gets him away from the dline. It puts him in space and within reach of free roaming safeties and LBs. Also playing conservative to protect the starting QB shouldn't justify the coaching staff ignoring developing a quality back up, which is basically what you intend. I may be reading it wrong so sorry if thats the case. If position coaches can't handle more than one player, they don't need to be coaching at this level.
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Doc, and Legg have been way to conservative from day one even with a great backup's.
Bingo. This conservative style didn't start with Litton.
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I also feel we are playing more conservative than we would normally, even for a Bill legg offense, in order to keep Litton healthy. That said, I think it’s time to open it up a bit more. I don’t think we can afford to play it so safe and win out in the regular season.
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I've posted this before, but still looking for a good explanation. In 2012 and 2013 we ran as many, or more, plays than anyone in the country. We had two speeds, fast and faster. I understand that put a lot of strain on our defense, so we slowed it down some in 2014. I also understand why we went even slower in 2015 with a freshman QB. 2016 isn't worth discussing, but this year we go even slower than 2015, rarely, if ever, vary the pace, and consistently snap the ball with 5 seconds on the play clock.
So now the question, why the radical change in offensive style over a relatively short time period?
When you look at FAU this year they are doing exactly what we did in 2012 and 2013.
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I've posted this before, but still looking for a good explanation. In 2012 and 2013 we ran as many, or more, plays than anyone in the country. We had two speeds, fast and faster. I understand that put a lot of strain on our defense, so we slowed it down some in 2014. I also understand why we went even slower in 2015 with a freshman QB. 2016 isn't worth discussing, but this year we go even slower than 2015, rarely, if ever, vary the pace, and consistently snap the ball with 5 seconds on the play clock.
So now the question, why the radical change in offensive style over a relatively short time period?
When you look at FAU this year they are doing exactly what we did in 2012 and 2013.
And, FAU is scoring a ton of points. Granted North Texas defense was suspect, they where very slow and weak up front on the defensive side of the ball. FAU have weapons that they utilize very well. This is one time controlling the clock against FAU will be in our favor.
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I think the intention at the beginning of the year was to just run the offense at a moderate pace. Then the Cincinnati game happened and we absolutely dominated time of possession. I don’t think we went into the Cincy game with the intention of focusing on T.O.P. but it worked out that way. Doc liked what he saw and it’s been our strategy since. My personal opinion is we need to mix in the hyper-tempo offense occasionally.
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I'm not sure what makes you all think we're holding anything back on offense? Any of these games where we've jumped out to a lead and "coasted" the rest of the way hasn't been due to prolific offensive performances. It's been due to large scoring bursts precipitated by turnovers and special teams.
One thing our offense HAS been good at this year is taking advantage of the short field. What we've not done this year, in any game, is show the ability to consistently move the ball and score. Not even against even some of the worst defenses in the nation.
104, 99, 7, 8, 3, 51, 80, 67.
Those numbers are how we've done in Pts/game nationally under Holliday and Legg. Even factoring in three seasons where we had one of the most prolific QB/WR duos in FBS history, the Legg offense has averaged about 52nd. In years without any guys named Cato/Shuler? 80th. There's no magic switch we're going to flip to start scoring points. What you see on the field right now is about what we've always done folks. I hope I'm wrong.
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I've posted this before, but still looking for a good explanation. In 2012 and 2013 we ran as many, or more, plays than anyone in the country. We had two speeds, fast and faster. I understand that put a lot of strain on our defense, so we slowed it down some in 2014. I also understand why we went even slower in 2015 with a freshman QB. 2016 isn't worth discussing, but this year we go even slower than 2015, rarely, if ever, vary the pace, and consistently snap the ball with 5 seconds on the play clock.
So now the question, why the radical change in offensive style over a relatively short time period?
When you look at FAU this year they are doing exactly what we did in 2012 and 2013.
We don't have a QB that can run the read option that efficient to run that many plays to speed. Cato was special, uncanny at reading a D, and audible on his own to the right read. Chase just can't do it (doesn't even wear a play sleeve) and isn't nearly as mobile. Tells me even at year 3 coaches don't have enough confidence in him to run that type of system. So because Legg is inept at adapting to players they dumb down the O as much as possible to make it passable for the personnel. More square pegs in round holes instead of working the O around the personnel you have. JMO.
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We don't have a QB that can run the read option that efficient to run that many plays to speed. Cato was special, uncanny at reading a D, and audible on his own to the right read. Chase just can't do it (doesn't even wear a play sleeve) and isn't nearly as mobile. Tells me even at year 3 coaches don't have enough confidence in him to run that type of system. So because Legg is inept at adapting to players they dumb down the O as much as possible to make it passable for the personnel. More square pegs in round holes instead of working the O around the personnel you have. JMO.
I dont buy that. Cato was absolutely terrible at running the read option for the better part of his career. Also, there has been plenty of talk this year about big plays happening because Chase changed the play. You don't have to wear a play sleeve to be able to audible.
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I dont buy that. Cato was absolutely terrible at running the read option for the better part of his career. Also, there has been plenty of talk this year about big plays happening because Chase changed the play. You don't have to wear a play sleeve to be able to audible.
So terrible, he ran one of the best offenses in the country for 3 years and tops almost every passing statistic in Marshall history. You must be thinking of Brian Anderson or something. I know you don't have to wear a play but that really wasn't my point. And checking to the sideline for a new play 3 times before you snap the isn't an audible on the QB.
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What he's saying is Cato did not run the ball at all his first two years and only sparingly in year 3. His senior year he ran a lot more, mainly in the redzone.
The earlier post nailed it. Legg is a great OC when he has an all world QB. Without one he is well below average.
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Cato was special, uncanny at reading a D, and audible on his own to the right read.
Cato was absolutely terrible at running the read option for the better part of his career.
It seems like he could not be both of these. So which was it.
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I've posted this before, but still looking for a good explanation. In 2012 and 2013 we ran as many, or more, plays than anyone in the country. We had two speeds, fast and faster. I understand that put a lot of strain on our defense, so we slowed it down some in 2014. I also understand why we went even slower in 2015 with a freshman QB. 2016 isn't worth discussing, but this year we go even slower than 2015, rarely, if ever, vary the pace, and consistently snap the ball with 5 seconds on the play clock.
So now the question, why the radical change in offensive style over a relatively short time period?
When you look at FAU this year they are doing exactly what we did in 2012 and 2013.
Could it be that our QB is limited in his capacity to absorb our offense? That's why we've kept it pretty basic and steady? Don't know.
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It seems like he could not be both of these. So which was it.
It was both. He was the master of turning a broken-ass play into something magical. And he was also a master of hitting his relief valves when where he wanted to go wasn't there. By doing what he did in spite of Legg and not because of it he fits both statements.
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It was both. He was the master of turning a broken-ass play into something magical. And he was also a master of hitting his relief valves when where he wanted to go wasn't there. By doing what he did in spite of Legg and not because of it he fits both statements.
The first 2.5 years or so Cato was not a good runner. He never pulled the ball on read option, and was very awkward in open field.
When I say read option, I'm referring to the actual running play, nothing to do with the QBs ability to command the offense as a whole.
Apollos statement of "We don't have a qb who can run the read option," implied that our offense is less effective under Litton because he can't run the read option. I disagree with that notion because Cato's sophomore year he was garbage at the read option yet we still finished top ten in the nation in points scored. Our problem is something else.
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The first 2.5 years or so Cato was not a good runner. He never pulled the ball on read option, and was very awkward in open field.
When I say read option, I'm referring to the actual running play, nothing to do with the QBs ability to command the offense as a whole.
Apollos statement of "We don't have a qb who can run the read option," implied that our offense is less effective under Litton because he can't run the read option. I disagree with that notion because Cato's sophomore year he was garbage at the read option yet we still finished top ten in the nation in points scored. Our problem is something else.
And Apollo will tell you that we didn't run Legg's offense with Cato. We ran Cato's. Litton is trying to conform to Legg's read option and has trouble because he doesn't really have an option, though it seems to be getting better. Cato just did what he had to to advance the ball, regardless of the play called. From day one there was no play called that encompassed most of Cato's creativity. He manufactured it on the fly. So you're right when you say Cato didn't run the read option well, but it's not the same because he wasn't trying to. Litton is.